More GOP class warfare against the poor

[Cannon Shell]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/06/news..._club_welfare/

[Clip-Clop]

But the single moms need that money!

[Danzig]

'Also, many low-income Americans live in areas where banks are scarce, making it hard for them to find an ATM, she said. Barring them from using ATMs in liquor stores or casinos could mean recipients have to travel farther or pay higher fees to access their benefits.'


i have never liked the change they had made where funds are eft'd to debit-type cards. assistance should go where it's meant to go, not to people who will draw out the cash and use it for who knows what, while they don't pay rent and other necessities...or they gamble a few bucks because they know their luck has gotta change, only to have junior go without food except school lunch.
they went to cards because they didn't want users to feel 'stigmatized'. all that has happened is its easier to abuse the system.


as an aside, i'm figuring if there are casinos in the area, there are atms and banks. this argument i quoted above is ridiculous. i doubt that the folks whose cards were used in those facilities were only there to get cash to pay the landlord!!!

[Indian Charlie]

How is it freaking possible that people to this day still think there is a difference between the two parties?

Listen up! Both parties are funded by the same groups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

How is it freaking possible that people to this day still think there is a difference between the two parties?

Listen up! Both parties are funded by the same groups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thinking there is a difference and blaming the other for all the countries ills at least gives one hope that when their party is in charge things will be better. Unlike me who 100% agrees with you and sees NO HOPE...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

How is it freaking possible that people to this day still think there is a difference between the two parties?

Listen up! Both parties are funded by the same groups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Riot]

I wonder if they are going to outlaw the Republican National Committee spending donor money on strip clubs in Tampa?

Naw, why change that

i have never liked the change they had made where funds are eft'd to debit-type cards.

Actually, that's a good thing for being far more easily able to control where the funds can be spent across the system. You can't purchase non-food items, alcohol, meds, etc. with your food stamp card, it just won't accept certain items with the swipes. It decreases abuse, not increases it. Makes abuse more difficult.

If those cards didn't exist, they couldn't be discussing this bill, as there wouldn't be any way to monitor it or control it. That's why you have the cottage industry of people in parking lots offering to purchase you food items for cash the first of the month.

"Welfare queens" Ruinin' it since Reagan invented them out of thin air, and in spite of the massive welfare program reforms of the 1990's <g>

[Indian Charlie]

ugh.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Actually, that's a good thing for being far more easily able to control where the funds can be spent across the system. You can't purchase non-food items, alcohol, meds, etc. with your food stamp card, it just won't accept certain items with the swipes.

From the article

Some recipients' use of their TANF benefits were called into question after media reports found the cards were being swiped at ATMs in strip clubs, liquor stores and casinos. Some recipients were also accessing their benefits out of state, including in Las Vegas casinos, at shops in Hawaii and on cruise ships, according to the reports.

So I guess it is possible...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

From the article

Some recipients' use of their TANF benefits were called into question after media reports found the cards were being swiped at ATMs in strip clubs, liquor stores and casinos. Some recipients were also accessing their benefits out of state, including in Las Vegas casinos, at shops in Hawaii and on cruise ships, according to the reports.

So I guess it is possible...

Edited to make the post more clear:

No, those were not EBT [for SNAP, "food stamp"] cards. The EBT [SNAP, "food stamp"] cards are already well-controlled (can't even buy toilet paper or aspirin with them). But like the EBT [SNAP, "food stamp"] cards, the TANF cards can be systematically programmed to not accept those locations or types of purchases if it is a problem. That is the advantage of the cards over the old system. Easier to control abuse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, those were not EBT cards. The EBT cards are already well-controlled (can't even buy toilet paper or aspirin with them). But like the EBT cards, the TANF cards can be systematically programmed to not accept those locations or types of purchases if it is a problem. That is the advantage of the cards over the old system. Easier to control abuse.

First poor people cant buy toilet paper and now they can't get lap dances? What is the world coming to?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, those were not EBT cards. The EBT cards are already well-controlled (can't even buy toilet paper or aspirin with them). But like the EBT cards, the TANF cards can be systematically programmed to not accept those locations or types of purchases if it is a problem. That is the advantage of the cards over the old system. Easier to control abuse.

Wrong again.

TANF "cash" is preset money that deposited on an EBT card. There is no such thing as a TANF card. You use your EBT card in an ATM to get TANF cash.

But I'm sure you researched that before you stated it as fact. Like always.

http://www.mejp.org/ebt.htm

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

First poor people cant buy toilet paper and now they can't get lap dances? What is the world coming to?

No, you cannot buy toilet paper with food stamp money.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Wrong again.

TANF "cash" is preset money that deposited on an EBT card. There is no such thing as a TANF card. You use your EBT card in an ATM to get TANF cash.

But I'm sure you researched that before you stated it as fact. Like always.

http://www.mejp.org/ebt.htm

There are different programs, the one I was talking about with their EBT cards is SNAP, the national/state "food stamp" only-program; different from the TANF program which pays for rent, heating/cooling, etc.

The Food Stamp EBT cards do not allow purchase of non-food items like toilet paper, aspirin, shampoo, soap, liquor, cigarettes, etc. and you can't get cash off of it at an ATM. You cannot pay rent, heating, etc. with the "food stamp" EBT card.

The TANF EBT cards do allow cash to be taken out, but can be programmed to do the same type of thing. That's why it's a good thing to have debit cards, versus sending out a check in the mail or auto deposit. Easier to control the purchases.

[Rudeboyelvis]

There is no such thing as TANF EBT cards and Food Stamp EBT cards.

There are EBT cards. Period. They are used like food stamps.

Additional funds are added to the EBT card each month, for, like you mentioned -rent, utilities, etc. Those funds (TANF) can be withdrawn from ATMs, including ATM's that are in liquor stores, strip clubs, etc. from the EBT card.

And they can do whatever they want with it.

Which makes your argument:

>>>Actually, that's a good thing for being far more easily able to control where the funds can be spent across the system. You can't purchase non-food items, alcohol, meds, etc. with your food stamp card, it just won't accept certain items with the swipes. It decreases abuse, not increases it. Makes abuse more difficult.<<<

Nothing but a fallacious assumption.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

There is no such thing as TANF EBT cards and Food Stamp EBT cards.

There are EBT cards. Period. They are used like food stamps.

No. Wrong. There are different federal programs. The "food stamp" program is SNAP (run by the USDA), that gives you an EBT card that can only be used for food: it cannot be used at an ATM to obtain cash, nor can it be used in a store to buy soap, toilet paper, McDonalds, etc. You buy your groceries, and the cashier swipes the SNAP EBT card, and any non-food items have to be paid for in cash.

The TANF program (formerly Aid to Dependent Children, now Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) is "welfare" (run by Health and Human Services) also uses an EBT card with benefits, but can be used to obtain cash at an ATM to buy food, pay rent, etc.

From the website for the state you quoted, if someone is getting both SNAP and TANF benefits on one card: "If you are buying both food and non-food items and want to use a combination of your Food Supplements and TANF benefits to pay, you will have to swipe your card through the machine twice and enter your PIN twice."

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/tanf/about.html

And they can do whatever they want with it.
Which makes your argument: Nothing but a fallacious assumption

No. My argument is that they can make the TANF EBT cards restricted, as the SNAP EBT cards currently are, to control abuse. The debit cards are a good thing, as they can be programmed for what not to accept.

BTW, are you aware that due to "welfare changes" in the 1990's, nobody can be on "welfare" (AFDC, TANF) for over 60 months during their lifetime? There is a five-year cumulative lifetime limit on being a "welfare queen".

[Rudeboyelvis]

How, pray tell, can these magic cards your talking about (regardless of whatever 4 letter acronym you say a state can choose to assign to it) discriminate against how the money distributed from them is used???

Do they have ATM's in the rental office that only lets you give the money to the landloard?

Do they have ATM's at the electric company that only let you pay your electric bill??

Of course not. The funds are distributed from a EBT card AS CASH. Period.



The argument, if you read the article, is that these poor folk don't live near banks, but they live near tittie bars and liquor stores that just so happen to have ATM's in them, and the House wants to pass a bill that calls bullsh.it on that notion.

They are still going to be able to buy booze and check out titties instead of paying their bills if they choose - it's just going to be a little more inconvenient.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

How, pray tell, can these magic cards your talking about (regardless of whatever 4 letter acronym you say a state can choose to assign to it) discriminate against how the money distributed from them is used???

Of course not. The funds are distributed from a EBT card AS CASH. Period.

No. There are two programs: SNAP (food stamps) and TANF (welfare).

If you are getting only "food stamps", money is put on that debit card, and you can only use it to buy food: if you try and use it in an ATM, won't work. Try to use it at McDonalds, won't work. At the pharmacy to buy your meds, won't work. No cash on the SNAP food stamp card.

If you are at the grocery store and buy lettuce, oatmeal and soap, the card will only accept the charges for the lettuce and oatmeal, and kick out the soap. This is easy, because of the bar code system on all items nowadays - certain bar codes are entered in the EBT system so that the cards will only pay for certain foods, and you cannot buy liquor, meds, soap, etc.

The TANF "welfare" cards can be used to get cash off the card, at ATM's, and can be used as a regular debit card (as your referenced site shows) to pay for non-food items like heating, water, etc.

If you are receiving both welfare and food assistance, as your site mentioned, you swipe you card, the food is deducted from your SNAP benefits, then you reswipe for the TANF benefits to pay for the soap.

So, my point about the advantage of having debit cards, over sending checks, is this: they can, at least, do for the TANF cards as they do with the SNAP program: enter the bar codes for liquor, dildoes, certain store names, etc. into the system to try and make it more difficult to use TANF benefits for non-welfare items. Maybe limit benefits only to home state.

Although I doubt the overall national level of abuse, for people with children that are so poor they need help to get rent and heat and water, is very high. Although this "problem" appears to be more important than creating jobs right now, for our House of Representatives.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, you cannot buy toilet paper with food stamp money.

Where do they think the food eventually winds up?