Pletcher

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

He actually did a little better than I thought. He had three 2nds and three 3rds. You could argue that that's pretty good, but for a guy like Pletcher who is so dominant and who wins at a 26% clip, he's not going to be happy going 0 for 17, even if he does have a few 2nds and 3rds.

Glad you looked into it. Mind you in a bunch of these races he had horses running against each other. Should he dead heat in those races to improve his %?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by avance2000

what? are you being serious?

I agree with you here. If Pletcher didn't start another horse all year, he would still win the Eclipse. He's at about $26 million. The next closest guy is at around $10 million. I think it's safe to say that Pletcher has the eclispe locked up.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Canon, when you start 17 horses, it goes to reason that some of them won't run well. How about some of the ones who ran well? Does he get no credit for that. I'm no huge fan of Pletcher but to pick on him for not winning is ridiculous. He had a really good day. Is that better for you? Not great. Jesus with semantics.

The Yankees had a really good year too? I mean they made the playoffs and they even won a game before they got blow away.

It was not like he ran a bunch of 50-1 shots that would be happy to hit the board. With the exception of Friendly Island almost all of his horses did not run up to par on the biggest day in racing. The fav for the filly eclipse breaks down, the 2 favs for turf eclipses go down meekly, the fav for the 2 yo eclipse runs good but probably loses the eclipse because he loses by 7. People are talking about another trainer when talking training eclipse after you dominate all year. How do you get a good day out of that?

Pletcher has the eclipse award locked up for the next 5 years (unless someone wins the TC).

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Glad you looked into it. Mind you in a bunch of these races he had horses running against each other. Should he dead heat in those races to improve his %?

Yes, you are correct about that. You can't expect him to win at his usual clip with so many horses running against each other. I certainly did not expect him to win 4 races today. I think he would have needed to win at least one race though to go home feeling pretty good. If he would have won two, I think he would have felt really good.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you here. If Pletcher didn't start another horse all year, he would still win the Eclipse. He's at about $26 million. The next closest guy is at around $10 million. I think it's safe to say that Pletcher has the eclispe locked up.

I am not saying that he shouldn't win the eclipse but the other guy has the horse of the year and won a classic race. Stranger things have happened.

[blackthroatedwind]

If you added up his percentage chances with each horse his expected wins came to about 1.5 to 1.75...thus he hardly had a successful day. Not saying it was a horrible day and his pre-BC commnts about working hard all year just to get to this position were very accurate but I think even he would say the barn underperformed.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, you are correct about that. You can't expect him to win at his usual clip with so many horses running against each other. I certainly did not expect him to win 4 races today. I think he would have needed to win at least one race though to go home feeling pretty good. If he would have won two, I think he would have felt really good.

It's not only that he didn't win it was that outside of CQ, the 2 yo fillies and Fr Island so many of his marquee horses ran below par.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am not saying that he shouldn't win the eclipse but the other guy has the horse of the year and won a classic race. Stranger things have happened.

Yes let's backtrack now. How on earth could you think he'd lose the eclipse? He breaks the stakes record in the entire world. Definitely take it away from him for 3 seconds and 3 thirds.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If you added up his percentage chances with each horse his expected wins came to about 1.5 to 1.75...thus he hardly had a successful day. Not saying it was a horrible day and his pre-BC commnts about working hard all year just to get to this position were very accurate but I think even he would say the barn underperformed.

You could make a case on the Juvy races and the Distaff where his main horse broke down, but other than that

The Euros were better on paper in both turf races and his Classic horses were outclassed and that was known. So should he have won a juvy race. I guess so. His fault the rail was a disgrace today and cost him the juvy fillies.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am not saying that he shouldn't win the eclipse but the other guy has the horse of the year and won a classic race. Stranger things have happened.

I really can't see it. If there was a guy within a few million dollars of him, it would be very possible. But with him being at $26 million and the next closest guy at $10 million, it's impossible for him to lose.

Last year you could make a case for Asmussen or Frankel. This year there is nobody to make a case for.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Yes let's backtrack now. How on earth could you think he'd lose the eclipse? He breaks the stakes record in the entire world. Definitely take it away from him for 3 seconds and 3 thirds.

I did not say he should lose but if the Breeders Cup means so much and you get shut out then he goes from 1-9 to 4-5. Remember that many voters wont look too far past todays results.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You could make a case on the Juvy races and the Distaff where his main horse broke down, but other than that

The Euros were better on paper in both turf races and his Classic horses were outclassed and that was known. So should he have won a juvy race. I guess so. His fault the rail was a disgrace today and cost him the juvy fillies.

Octave had a candy rail trip. She was simply not good enough. Any bias did not beat her. And, quite frankly, that was as bad a juvenile fillies field as I havce ever seen.

Todd's a terrific trainer, and was hardly disgraced today, but there is little doubt the barn underperformed overall. But, he also has overperformed on many occasions and will live to fight many more days.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hate to pick on you randall but are you a bills fan? Wait a While was nowhere, Flower Alley was terrible again, Lawyer Ron was awful, Fleet Indian broke down, Spun Sugar is still running, Pool Land stunk, Go deputy was awful, Quiet Royal is still running, English Channel probably blew an eclipse award by hanging, Magna Graduate ran poorly, Scat Daddy showed zero.

His 2 year old fillies ran ok and Circular Quay ran good, Honey rider ran well and Friendly Island ran good.

He may have blown the trainers Eclipse award with this performance but you call it great? I dont get it.

You know, I personally was happy he got blanked, maybe this will remedy that silly notion that all these owners seem to be having that only Pletcher is capable of winning, maybe now the good horses will be spread among several good trainers who prove they are just as capable with a good horse, I can guarantee you Holthus is feeling a little vindicated, Lawyer Ron never ran a worse race, Pletcher didn't reinvent the wheel, he's just as infallible as any of them with a better Vet.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

No winners today but I saw that his starters earned over 2 million from all the minor placings.

Did anyone catch when they annouced that he brought 45 people to work the BC for him? What an operation?

he averaged a check a race. gotta suck not to get a win, esp with fleet indian...but he can afford plenty of tissue to dry his eyes.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

You know, I personally was happy he got blanked, maybe this will remedy that silly notion that all these owners seem to be having that only Pletcher is capable of winning, maybe now the good horses will be spread among several good trainers who prove they are just as capable with a good horse, I can guarantee you Holthus is feeling a little vindicated, Lawyer Ron never ran a worse race, Pletcher didn't reinvent the wheel, he's just as infallible as any of them with a better Vet.

Not meant as any knock on Pletcher but you make a lot of good points. He's a VERY good trainer but so are a lot of guys. And I'm sure he would agree.

[Danzig]

this one day has too much influence on how horses are perceived, and evidently trainers as well. pletcher broke how many records this year?? the only of note i think he left standing was frankels graded races in a year--or is it just grade ones??
at any rate, he's worked hard to get to where he is, congrats to him--no doubt will repeat as eclipse trainer for '06.

Maybe Oracle can explain, but a few of Pletchers horses reeked of DMSO as they went past going to the paddock. And it wasn't the painted on smell, it was the jugged smell. I didn't think that stuff was allowed on race day.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

Maybe Oracle can explain, but a few of Pletchers horses reeked of DMSO as they went past going to the paddock. And it wasn't the painted on smell, it was the jugged smell. I didn't think that stuff was allowed on race day.

Did they really?!

That's bad news bears if that is the case...

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

Maybe Oracle can explain, but a few of Pletchers horses reeked of DMSO as they went past going to the paddock. And it wasn't the painted on smell, it was the jugged smell. I didn't think that stuff was allowed on race day.

not sure how credible, but look at #2 under withdrawal guidelines.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:...s&ct=clnk&cd=1