Lasix enhances performance

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You were done when I exposed your cross-thread backpedal. Don't kid yourself.

You have been neutralized. I suggest going back to the basics.

Do lecture us on HCO3-, acid-base balance, metabolic acidosis, strong ion exchange in the kidney, etc.

You can't even recognize when you're hopelessly clueless about what you are talking about

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think the fallout had to do with the fact that a lot of bettors lost out on betting a horse who should have been scratched. i know lasix was suggested as a possible reason for her lackluster performance.
now, when i read the other day that there was an 80% reduction in visible bleeding by horses in NY once the lasix ban was lifted....well, what else is there to say? do we really want an 80% increase in bleeders? we already have negative attention because of breakdowns, what will happen if horses start coming by the grandstand with blood coming out of their nostrils? or horses collapsing because of a bad enough hemorrage? and that does happen. i firmly believe that it's better to prevent something than to take a risk-that it's a lesser 'evil' if you will.

Your point is well taken, however, we should point out that the incidence of bleeding out the nose is reportedly between 1 and 2% of starters. And even then, that doesn't necessarily mean all episodes are visible to the public (ie some horses don't start bleeding until back at the barn).

I think the numbers you quoted were something in the range of 30+ vs. 70+ for comparable years at NYRA tracks.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Do lecture us on HCO3-, acid-base balance, metabolic acidosis, strong ion exchange in the kidney, etc.

Don't need to. This isn't a pissing contest (especially since all the participants aren't on lasix).

However, for those who are actually interested, I would whole-heartedly recommend ignoring any of my posts that broach those subjects you mentioned in favor of studying your own...and then presuming the exact opposite of what is written.

There is certainly more to be gained by that method then anything I could possibly cut-and-paste.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Cool, keep drugging them all then, whether they need it or not. You have a future in pharmacological sales.

That's it, I'm rooting for the Spurs...

When someone comes up with something that works better I'd be glad to stop using lasix. Until then I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and just hope that my horses don't bleed.

Sorry you don't agree but you dont exactly have to worry about real horses, just the theoretically abused ones.

One last time...

If it is a given that lasix helps prevent bleeding and it is a given that it helps reduce the severity of an incident and it is a given that we can't accurately predict when an incident will occur...how do you know who will or wont need it?

Aspirin, a drug is used by millions as preventative medicine and no one seems to have an issue with that.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Aspirin, a drug is used by millions as preventative medicine and no one seems to have an issue with that.

I promised myself I would stay out of this from here on in, but this comment was too naive for me to pass up.

Are you freaking kidding? Aspirin is far from harmless and lots and lots and lots of people have issues with it.

Truth be told, I was going to say idiotic, but in the interest of not being inflammatory I went with naive. Then again, I could just take an NSAID if I get too inflammatory!

Get it??! Aspirin, anti inflammatory, NSAID?? All worked together in one post! Pretty clever if you ask me!!

You should read up on NSAID's sometime.

Lasix and Aspirin are good for you.


Side note: The Doritos Locos Taco Supreme is nutritious and delicious.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I promised myself I would stay out of this from here on in, but this comment was too naive for me to pass up.

Are you freaking kidding? Aspirin is far from harmless and lots and lots and lots of people have issues with it.

Truth be told, I was going to say idiotic, but in the interest of not being inflammatory I went with naive. Then again, I could just take an NSAID if I get too inflammatory!

Get it??! Aspirin, anti inflammatory, NSAID?? All worked together in one post! Pretty clever if you ask me!!

You should read up on NSAID's sometime.

So the generally medically accepted practice of Doctors prescribing a daily aspirin regime is controversial and unacceptable?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So the generally medically accepted practice of Doctors prescribing a daily aspirin regime is controversial and unacceptable?

CS, there's plenty of debate about it, and it's not driven by whackos. Google "daily aspirin" for a sample.

Here's a link to the Mayo Clinic's recommendation:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/print/dail...3/METHOD=print

Here's part of what Mayo says:

"You should a daily aspirin only if your doctor advises you to do so. If you have had a heart attack or stroke, your doctor will likely recommend you take a daily aspirin unless you have a serious allergy or history of bleeding. If you have a high risk of having a first heart attack, your doctor might recommend aspirin after weighing the risks and benefits. You shouldn't start daily aspirin therapy on your own.

Although taking an occasional aspirin or two is safe for most adults to use for headaches, body aches or fever, daily use of aspirin can have serious side effects, including internal bleeding. "

--Dunbar

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Lasix and Aspirin are good for you.


Side note: The Doritos Locos Taco Supreme is nutritious and delicious.

Yo, it's like unicorns in your mouth.

Live mas.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So the generally medically accepted practice of Doctors prescribing a daily aspirin regime is controversial and unacceptable?

Correct.

In fact, about fifteen years ago I saw, on TV, an FDA regulator say that if aspirin were to be submitted today (15 years ago anyways) for approval as a new drug, it wouldn't pass.

To be fair though, he said it would not pass because they didn't fully understand it's mechanism. Or how it worked in the body.

Of all drugs, aspirin is probably the least harmful, but it causes a lot of problems for a lot of people. Did you read up on NSAID's yet?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

CS, there's plenty of debate about it, and it's not driven by whackos. Google "daily aspirin" for a sample.

Here's a link to the Mayo Clinic's recommendation:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/print/dail...3/METHOD=print

Here's part of what Mayo says:

"You should a daily aspirin only if your doctor advises you to do so. If you have had a heart attack or stroke, your doctor will likely recommend you take a daily aspirin unless you have a serious allergy or history of bleeding. If you have a high risk of having a first heart attack, your doctor might recommend aspirin after weighing the risks and benefits. You shouldn't start daily aspirin therapy on your own.

Although taking an occasional aspirin or two is safe for most adults to use for headaches, body aches or fever, daily use of aspirin can have serious side effects, including internal bleeding. "

--Dunbar

Not only does it cause internal bleeding (NSAIDs are particularly well known for causing the liver to bleed!), but that myth that a daily aspirin is 'good' for heart health has been completely debunked.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Not only does it cause internal bleeding (NSAIDs are particularly well known for causing the liver to bleed!), but that myth that a daily aspirin is 'good' for heart health has been completely debunked.

Huh? What are you basing that on?

--Dunbar

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Huh? What are you basing that on?

--Dunbar

I did overstate it when I said it's been totally debunked, but there is clear evidence that it is not as effective as people have been led to believe, and that aspirin is a bandaid for an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

[10 pnt move up]

My dad starting taking daily aspirin after what was a misdiagnosed mild heart issue and almost died from a GI bleed 3 weeks later.......scary stuff.

I don't get how with all these drugs the game has developed for horse welfare, the advances in modern equine medicine, that horses run about 1/3 as often as they did in the "30 years ago".