Orb Retired, to Stand at Claiborne in 2014

[Linny]

Remember when Orb was sent to Fair Hill? There was all sorts of chatter since Shug had never even set foot on the place prior.The fact is that Fair Hill, in addition to being a wonderful place for horses to live, has a full equine therapy center, complete with hyperbaric chamber, vibrating floors, pool etc. After a tough spring he went there post-Belmont with an eye to being back on track for the Jim Dandy. He didn't make the Jim Dandy and stayed in MD as long as possible before the Travers.
His Travers wasn't bad considering, but he was back to Fair Hill almost immediately thereafter. Sure, he'd reportedly liked FH, but it was hardly the Phipps/Janney/McGaughey model. It told me that something was "not quite right" even if no one was sure what "it" was.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

I'd generally assume 'yeah right, they know he's not sound' because we've heard that before, but something about the way Shug and the owners were talking about him in interviews and things made me feel like they were genuinely baffled. At least during the TC and coming out of Fair Hill. I've seen enough BS delivered to know if they were going 'nothing to see here, folks' about a known problem. Maybe there was something brewing and they figured it out later. I think if he'd bled through Lasix they'd have known that too before he falls on his face the last time. Simple enough to detect with scoping isn't it? Possibly even visually. They wait til November probably after trying to get him ready again and still not being able to. Curiouser and curiouser.

Whatever issues he may have right now, he may not have had during the TC. Or as you said, he may have had something that was just beginning to brew back then which became more evident later.

And I agree with everything that Linny said.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

One of the Jockey Club's big initiatives for 2014 is its partnership with Fox Sports to televise a series of races for older horses. Now, the Jockey Club's own leaders retire their 2013 Derby winner; regardless of what we all think of the quality of Orb's Derby victory, his presence would have helped that series.

Maybe once. If he continued to run up the track his allure would be minimal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Extremely disappointing... Sort of like a college basketball player that leaves early to go to the pro's... Orb's family didnt need the money and the breeding industry wasnt in dire need of Orb.. Feels like Claiborne wanted this and since they gave Data Link a shot they got Orb in the shed early.. Just spectulating

The difference being that Orb probably woudn't get drafted after his Post Derby performances. If there really wasnt any major issues and he was running poorly why would they believe he would reverse that trend? Perhaps Shug thought that he has seen better days and wasnt confident that he could get him back to the top of the division again?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe once. If he continued to run up the track his allure would be minimal.

exactly.
they couldn't take a chance on that happening again, especially without finding an excuse. after all, if something is broke, but you don't know what, how do you fix it?
also agree with what doug said about 3 yo honors. they probably figure WTC has it wrapped up, whether they ran in and won the cigar mile or not. and i have to think he just wasn't showing that same spark he had in fla and ky.
it happens. we've all seen horses suddenly get really good, or run a huge race, only to never do so again.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Linny

Remember when Orb was sent to Fair Hill? There was all sorts of chatter since Shug had never even set foot on the place prior.The fact is that Fair Hill, in addition to being a wonderful place for horses to live, has a full equine therapy center, complete with hyperbaric chamber, vibrating floors, pool etc. After a tough spring he went there post-Belmont with an eye to being back on track for the Jim Dandy. He didn't make the Jim Dandy and stayed in MD as long as possible before the Travers.
His Travers wasn't bad considering, but he was back to Fair Hill almost immediately thereafter. Sure, he'd reportedly liked FH, but it was hardly the Phipps/Janney/McGaughey model. It told me that something was "not quite right" even if no one was sure what "it" was.

Supposedly Shug liked it so much that he has bought a barn at Fair Hill. However it was odd that he choose to keep the horse there and undergo extensive hyperbaric treatments.

[Calzone Lord]

I thought Shug showed incredible honesty during the triple crown trail. Admitting that he thought Orb was an Aqueduct spring horse and only joining the triple crown trail after having his hand forced.

If he says he's completely sound, I believe he's honest.

Orb raced in the Autumn at AQU, winter at GP, all 3 triple crown events, did a lot of traveling, I'm not sure why it's supposed to be so disconcerting that he was freshened at Fair Hill, when Fair Hill is supposed to be the best place a horse can go for a freshening.

What benefit would they have not disclosing an injury? A lot of excellent sires weren't sound horses. Danzig had 3 races and never even made it anywhere. Mr. Prospector had injuries. Storm Cat had injuries and never had a decent campaign. A. P. Indy had a couple of physical setbacks, was scratched from the Derby.

It's tinfoil hat stuff to speculate he was injured and they concealed it. It's almost as bad to speculate that he was as good or better than Easy Goer.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The difference being that Orb probably woudn't get drafted after his Post Derby performances. If there really wasnt any major issues and he was running poorly why would they believe he would reverse that trend? Perhaps Shug thought that he has seen better days and wasnt confident that he could get him back to the top of the division again?

We are all guessing. To me it seems like a favor to Claiborne who's stallion roster has gone from a non factor to dominate in 5 years.

As hard as it is to pick winners on the track to bet...It is so much tougher to predict Stallion success. War Front? Tapit Malibu Moon? who thought these 3 could ever be the sports top producers. Malibu Moon had to be a billion to 1 to be a world class producer.

[randallscott35]

Malibu Moon had quite the longevity himself.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I thought Shug showed incredible honesty during the triple crown trail. Admitting that he thought Orb was an Aqueduct spring horse and only joining the triple crown trail after having his hand forced.

If he says he's completely sound, I believe he's honest.

Orb raced in the Autumn at AQU, winter at GP, all 3 triple crown events, did a lot of traveling, I'm not sure why it's supposed to be so disconcerting that he was freshened at Fair Hill, when Fair Hill is supposed to be the best place a horse can go for a freshening.

What benefit would they have not disclosing an injury? A lot of excellent sires weren't sound horses. Danzig had 3 races and never even made it anywhere. Mr. Prospector had injuries. Storm Cat had injuries and never had a decent campaign. A. P. Indy had a couple of physical setbacks, was scratched from the Derby.

It's tinfoil hat stuff to speculate he was injured and they concealed it. It's almost as bad to speculate that he was as good or better than Easy Goer.

I dont believe he was injured. As a trainer there is little more frustrating than when your horse goes off form with no readily apparent reason. If there is an injury or persistent issue like sore feet then you have something to deal with and once you get the issue under control good horses will generally return to form or something close to it. When you can not find an issue or there is no real pyhsical reason why the horse is under performing you do things like send the horse to Fairhill to be freshened up and get hyperbaric treatment in hopes that solves whatever the hidden issue is. Obviously outside of a decent Travers run it didnt work with Orb.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Malibu Moon had quite the longevity himself.

Follows the footsteps of Danzig

[freddymo]

Orb was at Belmont in advance of JCGC right?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

We are all guessing. To me it seems like a favor to Claiborne who's stallion roster has gone from a non factor to dominate in 5 years.

As hard as it is to pick winners on the track to bet...It is so much tougher to predict Stallion success. War Front? Tapit Malibu Moon? who thought these 3 could ever be the sports top producers. Malibu Moon had to be a billion to 1 to be a world class producer.

i give the credit to hughes and the pons. then again, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Orb was at Belmont in advance of JCGC right?

no. stayed at fair hill, shipped in just a few days before the race. had a work at FH just 5 days prior.

[bare it all]

I had read that Shug was keeping the colt at Fair Hill because it was "quiet" and he's a very nervous animal.

[Danzig]

hey, if i was a horse, i'd want to stay at fair hill.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

We are all guessing. To me it seems like a favor to Claiborne who's stallion roster has gone from a non factor to dominate in 5 years.

As hard as it is to pick winners on the track to bet...It is so much tougher to predict Stallion success. War Front? Tapit Malibu Moon? who thought these 3 could ever be the sports top producers. Malibu Moon had to be a billion to 1 to be a world class producer.

Malibu Moon displayed freakish ability in his brief career.

He has a great pedigree as well.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Malibu Moon displayed freakish ability in his brief career.

He has a great pedigree as well.

Brief is the key word. Not freakish....Everything that is wrong with what we breed.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont believe he was injured. As a trainer there is little more frustrating than when your horse goes off form with no readily apparent reason. If there is an injury or persistent issue like sore feet then you have something to deal with and once you get the issue under control good horses will generally return to form or something close to it. When you can not find an issue or there is no real pyhsical reason why the horse is under performing you do things like send the horse to Fairhill to be freshened up and get hyperbaric treatment in hopes that solves whatever the hidden issue is. Obviously outside of a decent Travers run it didnt work with Orb.

Could it be that the horse, or Orb in this case, just doesn't "want to play the game" anymore? (kind of like a show horse going ring sour)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Brief is the key word. Not freakish....Everything that is wrong with what we breed.

you're conflating injury and unsoundness. he suffered an injury. he wasn't fragile, he got hurt. are you suggesting that if a horse suffers an injury before a certain amount of starts, he should be barred from standing at stud? if so, what's the magic number that delineates between sound and durable, and unsound and fragile?