Obama's support for Ground Zero Mosque

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so...you can tell me you know for sure that the dope dealers are all people who don't go to church? lol
catholic priests who were found to have molested kids went to church every day. im pretty sure they felt they were christians. being christian doesn't keep you from breaking laws, just like being islamic, jewish, hindu doesn't keep everyone on the right path.

but at least you are showing you can keep criminal behavior separate from religion, and don't think one has to do with the other. that's good.

What religion the dealers are is not a factor in the conversation because they aren't killing or comitting crimes for religous reasons. They aren't going to target an American because of their religion. They may target you as a potential ransom payday and they may kill you anyway. But they aren't going to kill you because of your religous affiliation. In a muslim country they would. I have a hard time believing that you dont understand the difference.

Why you and others continue to insist that there is no link between the muslim religion and terrorism is baffling. Saying that doesn't mean that all muslims are terrorists but a certain element of the religion is not only killing in the name of their god but glorifyfing it and many muslim clerics that are somehow considered "mainstream" often say the terrorism is justified.

[dellinger63]

Let us not forget

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-9JpRytCx0

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

again, why is the site incendiary? recognizing the religion of the perpetrators, while failing to consider that islamic people were also victims in this attack is ignoring fact. if a church wants to honor it's dead, that's ok...but a mosque wants to reach out in that area, it's wrong. that ignores the fact that muslims were victims that day, not just christians.


i'm really just surprised that this thread is so long, considering everyone concedes they have a right to build there. i heard today that the idiots who protest at funerals have been shown to have the right, due to free speech laws. it's unpalatable, shows insensitivity, but can't be blocked without being unconstitutional.

the rule of law must prevail. you can't disallow this building, i don't understand why so many are so vocal about this, when there's really nowhere to stand against it.
all nyc can do about this is to change the zoning, and i don't see that happening.

The muslims that did this act of terroris did it in the name of the religion, not because they were looking to get on CNN. Why you can't understand that people would be upset that a site 2 blocks from ground zero would be a place celebrating the same religion that was used as a justification for the attack seems incredible to me.

This isn't a legal debate, havent we conceded that enought times???

[dellinger63]

these guys explain why it's a religious thing to them. Did he say at about the 3min point 'we stole their racehorses'? LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

now, there's an a-ha moment. change iran to islam. change iran's leaders to terrorist leaders. now, does that help you to understand why i say you can't tar this whole religion? it's the same thing. the press fastens on the few crackpot zealots, and ignores the masses who just want to live in peace.

and no, i don't hate venezuelans, i feel bad for them, as well as iranians and any other people who have to labor under a system like that. it's got to be awful.

You can't compare a country and religion. I am not tarring the whole religion. But when the list of terror groups that kill in the name of Islam dwarfs every other brand of terrorism I think there may be some issues that Muslims need to deal with themselves. Hell Muslims kill way more muslims than anyone else in the world.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Most of Mexico is Catholic. Including the drug dealers.

Funny I can't find any information on any Mexican Catholic terror groups that are killing non-believers based on the words of the bible. Google that for me will ya?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, Dell, I did not do what I accused Chuck of doing. I said Chuck was being disingenuous (and yes, he was). Lori is just a yapping internet troll.

In what way would I possibly be accused of being disingenous on this subject? Do you think I am a closet muslim?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you listen to the President's comments from Saturday, it doesn't sound like he thinks it's a very good idea to put a mosque there. This is from the Wall Street Journal:

On Saturday, the president said, "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque" near Ground Zero, he told reporters during a visit to the Gulf Coast. "I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...toWhatsNewsTop

I believe they call that 'backtracking'

[jms62]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Mexican+Catholic+terror+groups+

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What religion the dealers are is not a factor in the conversation because they aren't killing or comitting crimes for religous reasons. They aren't going to target an American because of their religion. They may target you as a potential ransom payday and they may kill you anyway. But they aren't going to kill you because of your religous affiliation. In a muslim country they would. I have a hard time believing that you dont understand the difference.

Why you and others continue to insist that there is no link between the muslim religion and terrorism is baffling. Saying that doesn't mean that all muslims are terrorists but a certain element of the religion is not only killing in the name of their god but glorifyfing it and many muslim clerics that are somehow considered "mainstream" often say the terrorism is justified.

when criminals commit crimes, some attempt to justify it. others don't bother. now, you and i, as well as most on here, can't imagine doing what these guys are-mass killings, suicide bombings, etc. yet bin laden has found a few others who think as he does, much like hitler surrounded himself with like-minded cronies, as did stalin...we don't get it, it makes no sense. but then, i can't imagine having ever been a kamikaze pilot either.
now, bin laden has chosen to justify his actions, much like hitler did before. hitler was preaching a strong germany, a return to greatness. bin laden wants power, and all that goes with it-he has chosen to justify his criminal acts by twisting some verses in the koran to suit his needs.
if a guy beats his wife, he can find a verse in the bible to justify it. does he beat his wife because the bible said so? no, but it's an excuse, and one that many may not be able to repudiate, because how many can really quote the bible chapter and verse? however, just like one can justify staying peaceful by saying 'turn the other cheek', someone else can say 'no, an eye for an eye'.
bin laden is a monster, a killer. we wonder what induces people to do horrible things-in this guys case, we think we have an answer-his religion. but their are billions of people who are of the same religion-yet the vast majority are peaceful people.
i'm saying we may never really know why he does what he does. it's obvious that we, and anyone who agrees with us (like the iraq army recruits killed overnite) are his targets. he doesn't care what religion we are-he just hates us. do you really think he would agree with that mosque in new york? no, he wouldn't. he doesn't want peace and harmony, he wants death and destruction. that's not religion.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I believe they call that 'backtracking'

it's called too close to elections to anger voters.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

when criminals commit crimes, some attempt to justify it. others don't bother. now, you and i, as well as most on here, can't imagine doing what these guys are-mass killings, suicide bombings, etc. yet bin laden has found a few others who think as he does, much like hitler surrounded himself with like-minded cronies, as did stalin...we don't get it, it makes no sense. but then, i can't imagine having ever been a kamikaze pilot either.
now, bin laden has chosen to justify his actions, much like hitler did before. hitler was preaching a strong germany, a return to greatness. bin laden wants power, and all that goes with it-he has chosen to justify his criminal acts by twisting some verses in the koran to suit his needs.
if a guy beats his wife, he can find a verse in the bible to justify it. does he beat his wife because the bible said so? no, but it's an excuse, and one that many may not be able to repudiate, because how many can really quote the bible chapter and verse? however, just like one can justify staying peaceful by saying 'turn the other cheek', someone else can say 'no, an eye for an eye'.
bin laden is a monster, a killer. we wonder what induces people to do horrible things-in this guys case, we think we have an answer-his religion. but their are billions of people who are of the same religion-yet the vast majority are peaceful people.
i'm saying we may never really know why he does what he does. it's obvious that we, and anyone who agrees with us (like the iraq army recruits killed overnite) are his targets. he doesn't care what religion we are-he just hates us. do you really think he would agree with that mosque in new york? no, he wouldn't. he doesn't want peace and harmony, he wants death and destruction. that's not religion.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

and they are also haters first, last and always. it's a shame a few supposed religious leaders use that as the basis for doing evil. but we have to understand that most muslims do not agree with bin laden and his followers-it's not terrorists wanting to build a center in new york. and yes, they do try to blur the lines; we have to be smarter than to fall for it.

i was listening to a radio show on the way home tonite that was discussing the proposed center. a caller was put on the line, someone who lost a brother who worked in one of the towers on 9-11. he supports the new building, is not a muslim, but knows of this group and their work over the years in that area of the city. he made some great points; i wish everyone who is up in arms about this could have heard him.
i just don't want us to repay hate from some with hate to others-the people involved aren't wishing anyone harm at all, they have no ill-will, but are being given plenty in return. this country is the most diverse in population, culture, religion-we can't be divisive, we've got to find common ground against an enemy of everyone who lives in this country, including the muslim citizens. those terrorists didn't care who each person was, they just wanted to attack america, kill americans. if they only wanted to kill those of a separate religion, they'd have attacked houses of worship.

[clyde]

Is it me?








It's them....right?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

Some people want to act like Bin-Laden is in no way representative of Muslims. But the truth of the matter is that he was probably the most popular figure in the entire Muslim world in the immediate years after 9/11. The most popular name given new-born Muslim babies in many Muslim countries post 9/11 was "Osama". As I linked in other threads, Bin Laden's approval rating throughout the Muslim world in the years after 9/11 was extremely high. It was around 50-60% in many Muslim countries.

He's not nearly as popular any more, probably because he's been killing too many Muslims lately and not enough Americans.

Anyway, to act like Bin-Laden was not an extremely popular figure in the Muslim world is a complete lie.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Now it's starting to look like they may not build the mosque there after all.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/...ue-compromise/

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Some people want to act like Bin-Laden is in no way representative of Muslims. But the truth of the matter is that he was probably the most popular figure in the entire Muslim world in the immediate years after 9/11. The most popular name given new-born Muslim babies in many Muslim countries post 9/11 was "Osama". As I linked in other threads, Bin Laden's approval rating throughout the Muslim world in the years after 9/11 was extremely high. It was around 50-60% in many Muslim countries.

He's not nearly as popular any more, probably because he's been killing too many Muslims lately and not enough Americans.

Anyway, to act like Bin-Laden was not an extremely popular figure in the Muslim world is a complete lie.

It was a pretty sick time. "Leaders" responsible for senseless and widespread mass murder enjoyed strangely high approval ratings in certain parts of the world from 2001-2004.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But when clerics, imans and other 'official' representatitives of the religion show support for these terror organizations it blurs the lines.

The imam of the NY mosque you guys are against taught counterterrorism for the FBI. That's the "evil" you guys are worried about. Geeshus cripes.

[timmgirvan]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ad_been_a.html

Now we can put behind that BS that McVeigh was a Christian....Atheist it says.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...ad_been_a.html

Atheist it says.

Do most atheists you know believe in god? Because McVeigh did. Do you seriously believe everything you read on the internet? You cite some right-wing blog as your evidence? Here is McVeigh's interview with Time:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/prin...109478,00.html

The key part with regards to religion:

TIME: Are you religious?
MCVEIGH: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.
TIME: Do you believe in God?
MCVEIGH: I do believe in a God, yes. But that's as far as I want to discuss. If I get too detailed on some things that are personal like that, it gives people an easier way alienate themselves from me and that's all they are looking for now.

Yep....that's some atheist.