Cash for Clunkers Success

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You are right, the correct phrase is 75% of those that believe in death panels get their news from Fox News.

Thanks

Please show me where the poll states that. I could't find it.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

The above makes perfect sense

Try again: you said Obama was expanding the healthcare plan. I asked you what you meant. You posted the above as response. The article you quote from WSJ has nothing about expanding the healthcare plan in it, it discusses the various aspects of the various bills, how they might split it to get it through, etc.

So what do you mean by "expanding the healthcare plan" ?

I said "In step 1 we are now going to 'expand' Medicaid? Is this the same Medicaid we were going to take 2/3 of 'waste money' from?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31304

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

The above makes perfect sense

Try again: you said Obama was expanding the healthcare plan. I asked you what you meant. You posted the above as response. The article you quote from WSJ has nothing about expanding the healthcare plan in it, it discusses the various aspects of the various bills, how they might split it to get it through, etc.

So what do you mean by "expanding the healthcare plan" ?

You seemed under the impression we were going to use wasted money from Medicaid and apply it to a streamlined system that would cover far more people at a cheaper cost. That was the fodder for my reponse.

And how does a Presdent who uses the post office as a government agency that competes with the private sector admitting it's crappy as an example of gov./private sector competition make sense when applied to a gov. health insurance company?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Please show me where the poll states that. I could't find it.

You didn't read the poll, you were reading an interpretation of the poll. You can find the actual poll on the NBC website.

Don't you think it's scarily significant that 45% of the people interviewed regarding this very important legislation falsely believe something that's absolutely, positively not true?

Kinda like you believing Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, when it's been made public for over a year now.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

You seemed under the impression we were going to use wasted money from Medicaid and apply it to a streamlined system that would cover far more people at a cheaper cost. That was the fodder for my reponse.

And how does a Presdent who uses the post office as a government agency that competes with the private sector admitting it's crappy as an example of gov./private sector competition make sense when applied to a gov. health insurance company?

I'ts not my "impression", Dell. Obama has clearly said that the majority of funding for the healthcare reform package (the parts that need funding) will come from collection of wasted money from Medicare (not Medicaid). I want to see that to believe it.

BTW, the President never said the PO was crappy (Try giving the PO, UPS and Fed Ex a regular business letter with an address on it, and see what each charges you for delivery)

The current government health insurance companies apparently do well enough, that you can't find anybody covered by them that wants to give up their coverage

Answer this for me, Dell: do you buy your own health insurance, or is your health insurance paid for by your employer, or do you have no health insurance?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You didn't read the poll, you were reading an interpretation of the poll. You can find the actual poll on the NBC website.

Don't you think it's scarily significant that 45% of the people interviewed regarding this very important legislation falsely believe something that's absolutely, positively not true?

Kinda like you believing Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, when it's been made public for over a year now.

It's the interpretation of the bill. No there will be no panel deciding whether grandma dies or lives but there will surely be panels who decide what Dr.'s and hospitals you can go to and how often that for some will be a death sentence.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I said "In step 1 we are now going to 'expand' Medicaid? Is this the same Medicaid we were going to take 2/3 of 'waste money' from?

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31304

Ah, now I see, I think you are confusing two entirely different topics regarding healthcare reform.

One proposal made (but not strongly supported, and I think it's off the table) is to expand Medicaid to be more inclusive, and pick up more people (lessening the number of uninsured that will have to be covered by other parts of healthcare reform).

The second is how the healthcare reform bill overall costs will be paid for, which involves savings from waste in Medicare.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

You didn't read the poll, you were reading an interpretation of the poll. You can find the actual poll on the NBC website.

Don't you think it's scarily significant that 45% of the people interviewed regarding this very important legislation falsely believe something that's absolutely, positively not true?

Kinda like you believing Obama doesn't have a birth certificate, when it's been made public for over a year now.

It is much more troubling to me when the Attorney General says things that are absolutely, positively not true.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...019115348.html


Its scary that 53% of Americans thought Obama would be the answer. That wont happen again.



And Obama brought the Birth Certificate thing on himself by refusing to allow the public to see it. It isnt like it is nude photos or something...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

It's the interpretation of the bill. No there will be no panel deciding whether grandma dies or lives but there will surely be panels who decide what Dr.'s and hospitals you can go to and how often that for some will be a death sentence.

You realize the above is exactly what exists now, in private healthcare? The private insurance carriers tell you what doctors and hospitals you can go to, they tell doctors what treatments they will pay for and which they will not (yes, they do dictate medical care to doctors in a way), they can refuse treatment for covered problems after they have agreed to cover it with no legal recourse of the patient (happened to me), and private insurance companies can and do refuse to pay for treatments, or continued treatments, such decisions having caused the deaths of people.

That is WHY healthcare reform and consumer protection is so important. Because what you fear is happening now.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'ts not my "impression", Dell. Obama has clearly said that the majority of funding for the healthcare reform package (the parts that need funding) will come from collection of wasted money from Medicare (not Medicaid). I want to see that to believe it.

BTW, the President never said the PO was crappy (Try giving the PO, UPS and Fed Ex a regular business letter with an address on it, and see what each charges you for delivery)

The current government health insurance companies apparently do well enough, that you can't find anybody covered by them that wants to give up their coverage

Answer this for me, Dell: do you buy your own health insurance, or is your health insurance paid for by your employer, or do you have no health insurance?

Sometimes I wonder if you understand what you are fighting for?
If you have doubts that the majority of funding for healthcare reform will come from the collection of wasted more from Medicare then how can you possibly support these measures? The only way to find out if it can happen is to do it! What if your suspicions are correct? Too late.

The Post office loses billions of dollars a year. They have farmed out much of their overnight business (which is lucrative) to UPS and FedEX because they are not nearly as good as the private companies.

The current govt health insurance companies are free. Who gives up free stuff?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is much more troubling to me when the Attorney General says things that are absolutely, positively not true.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...019115348.html


Its scary that 53% of Americans thought Obama would be the answer. That wont happen again.



And Obama brought the Birth Certificate thing on himself by refusing to allow the public to see it. It isnt like it is nude photos or something...

Yeah, I don't know about Holder. We'll see.

Obama put his birth certificate out there over a year ago during the campaign. It's on the internet.

Here: for the few remaining conspiracy theorists <vbg>

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Answer this for me, Dell: do you buy your own health insurance, or is your health insurance paid for by your employer, or do you have no health insurance?

I pay for my own. Had a heart check and lung (MRI) independant of the insurance kind of a home inspection. I do have a large deductable that keeps the policy very reasonable for what it covers if things go bad. And yes I'm happy w/it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sometimes I wonder if you understand what you are fighting for?

Because I don't automatically and unthinkingly segregate complex social issues into political black and white, for and against, based upon political affiliation?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You realize the above is exactly what exists now, in private healthcare? The private insurance carriers tell you what doctors and hospitals you can go to, they tell doctors what treatments they will pay for and which they will not (yes, they do dictate medical care to doctors in a way), they can refuse treatment for covered problems after they have agreed to cover it with no legal recourse of the patient (happened to me), and private insurance companies can and do refuse to pay for treatments, or continued treatments, such decisions having caused the deaths of people.

That is WHY healthcare reform and consumer protection is so important. Because what you fear is happening now.

I will agree it does happen now but just as I would trust UPS or FedEx way more than the Post Office with something important/expensive I trust private insurance and for that matter private Dr.'s more than a government panel with decisions that are pretty important....

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I pay for my own. Had a heart check and lung (MRI) independant of the insurance kind of a home inspection. I do have a large deductable that keeps the policy very reasonable for what it covers if things go bad. And yes I'm happy w/it.

Everybody is happy with their insurance coverage until they are not Especially the younger one is, and the less pre-existing conditions one has.

Wouldn't you like your insurance company to be willing to cover more preventative care, rather than repairative care, like that MRI?

If that MRI you paid for because you wanted good preventative care had found something (let's say something minor you need to keep an eye on in the future), do you realize that your insurance company can choose to arbitrarily and immediately drop you for any future coverage stemming from those findings, or put limits on how much they will pay for any problem during your lifetime.

Don't you find that a little scary?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Because I don't automatically and unthinkingly segregate complex social issues into political black and white, for and against, based upon political affiliation?

Usually when someone is so heavily in favor of trillion dollar projects they dont have potential issues with the funding sources of said project. Show me an example where I have come out against any policy of anyone without solid reasoning.

I recognize politics for what it is and politicians for what they are.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Everybody is happy with their insurance coverage until they are not Especially the younger one is, and the less pre-existing conditions one has.

Wouldn't you like your insurance company to be willing to cover more preventative care, rather than repairative care, like that MRI?

If that MRI you paid for because you wanted good preventative care had found something (let's say something minor you need to keep an eye on in the future), do you realize that your insurance company can choose to arbitrarily and immediately drop you for any future coverage stemming from those findings, or put limits on how much they will pay for any problem during your lifetime.

Don't you find that a little scary?

Which is why legislation should be written that prevents these unfortunate issues. That is the answer, not Trillion dollar govt programs with suspect funding.

But of course the Lawyers and Insurance lobbys wont have that will they?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Which is why legislation should be written that prevents these unfortunate issues. That is the answer, not Trillion dollar govt programs with suspect funding.

But of course the Lawyers and Insurance lobbys wont have that will they?

That is exactly what the current healthcare reform packages include.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Everybody is happy with their insurance coverage until they are not Especially the younger one is, and the less pre-existing conditions one has.

Wouldn't you like your insurance company to be willing to cover more preventative care, rather than repairative care, like that MRI?

If that MRI you paid for because you wanted good preventative care had found something (let's say something minor you need to keep an eye on in the future), do you realize that your insurance company can choose to arbitrarily and immediately drop you for any future coverage stemming from those findings, or put limits on how much they will pay for any problem during your lifetime.

Don't you find that a little scary?

Nowhere near as scary as a congressional appointed panel deciding who gets care and who doesn't no matter whether it leans right or left. Will postal employees get preferential treatment, teachers? Let the private sector decide based on monetary considerations that correspond far more closely to the amount an individual contributed to social and government programs in the first place. You know Capitalism, the American Way!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

That is exactly what the current healthcare reform packages include.

Not exactly...