NCAA Tournament Playalong Thread

Michigan State really nutted up tonight. I love losing money on basketball.


Football starts in 5 months!!!

[King Glorious]

The team that was a strong and deserving favorite won like they were supposed to. Too much athleticsm and talent across the board. For all the talk about the Big East this year, it's funny that the best team came from the ACC yet again. Duke has a title, UNC has two, and Maryland has one in this decade.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I am going to change my stance from the beginning of the season and suggest that UNC actually has a chance to win the title. Jay Wright said it was their defense that killed them. Imagine that. So did Jeff Capel. They don't lock you up for 40 minutes a night but they have such great athletes all over the floor that they can tighten the screws for several minutes at a time and make life miserable for you. You can play them even for 32 minutes but there will be two four minute stretches where they will go on a 12-2 or 18-4 run and that's the game. Michigan St. got out and ran with UConn and had success. Izzo has to know that they can't beat UNC that way and will try to slow the game down but the problem will be just like the one Illinois had a couple of years ago. It's the natural instinct of the players to run and with a team dominated by perimeter players like Michigan St. is, they are going to be lulled into a track meet for a few minutes here and there and that's where they will lose the game. I think UNC wins by about 15.

you suck...two points off.

[King Glorious]

The game went exactly like I thought it would. MSU was playing at a pace that's too fast for them. That's what UNC does. They score so fast and press the issue that it lulls you into a false sense of thinking that this is how you should be playing too. They'll give you some open shots that you'll take early and that in turn gets them going at the pace they want. You could see MSU was playing way too fast early and turning the ball over way too much. They were taking a ton of jump shots. UNC got it from all over. The killed them inside and Ellington was big from outside. In the first few minutes of the game, all five UNC starters had scored. This was like a carbon copy of the Illinois game.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Only counting players that didn't enter the NBA until 1995 since that is when Izzo started you have all of the following that have averaged 10+ PPG in a season in the NBA:

Shane Battier
Carlos Boozer
Elton Brand
Chris Duhon
Mike Dunleavy
Grant Hill
Corey Maggette
Luol Deng

That's a lot more NBA talent than what Izzo has had to work with and that doesn't even include Jay Williams who averaged 9.5 as a rookie before the accident ruined his career.

Ive always hated Duke, but Jay Williams was a stud and it was sad to see his career end. He had unlimited potential.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The team that was a strong and deserving favorite won like they were supposed to. Too much athleticsm and talent across the board. For all the talk about the Big East this year, it's funny that the best team came from the ACC yet again. Duke has a title, UNC has two, and Maryland has one in this decade.

While the big East was so much better than the other conferences, its been known all year how good UNC was... pretty much the only real good team in the ACC. this was no surprise.

[gales0678]

for all the big east fans that thought lousiville was a legit #1 team - UNC scored more points in a half a game than Louisville scored in the entire game against MSU

now if that don't convince you that they were a fraud i don't know what will , i picked wake in that region and was wrong , but , lousiville could have been the most overated #1 team ever in the tournament

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by gales0678

for all the big east fans that thought lousiville was a legit #1 team - UNC scored more points in a half a game than Louisville scored in the entire game against MSU

now if that don't convince you that they were a fraud i don't know what will , i picked wake in that region and was wrong , but , lousiville could have been the most overated #1 team ever in the tournament

oh shut up

[gales0678]

no in all seriousness , louisville was a good scrappy team that played great defense and could only score via fast break and to's

they couldn't score in a 1/2 court game , i think coach pitino should get coach of the year for getting this team to be a #1 seed with this glaring inability

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

That's a shame. I'm sure the people of Detroit were expecting some people in town next weekend for the event. They'll be upset the event was cancelled.

The closest any team was to UNC at the finish was 12 points. That was Oklahoma. UNC also scored 11 fewer points in that game than they did in any other game.

[GPK]

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The closest any team was to UNC at the finish was 12 points. That was Oklahoma. UNC also scored 11 fewer points in that game than they did in any other game.

well, that 12 point margin was very deceiving. That game was no more compelling than the Villanova or Mich State games.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The game went exactly like I thought it would. MSU was playing at a pace that's too fast for them. That's what UNC does. They score so fast and press the issue that it lulls you into a false sense of thinking that this is how you should be playing too. They'll give you some open shots that you'll take early and that in turn gets them going at the pace they want. You could see MSU was playing way too fast early and turning the ball over way too much. They were taking a ton of jump shots. UNC got it from all over. The killed them inside and Ellington was big from outside. In the first few minutes of the game, all five UNC starters had scored. This was like a carbon copy of the Illinois game.

Exactly what happened. I just don't get it when they slowed the pace against Louisville, picked up the pace against UConn, but not slow it back down against UNC.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

Exactly what happened. I just don't get it when they slowed the pace against Louisville, picked up the pace against UConn, but not slow it back down against UNC.

how do you slow them down , no one did all year ? they had 20 points in the 1st 5 minutes and the game was over

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

Exactly what happened. I just don't get it when they slowed the pace against Louisville, picked up the pace against UConn, but not slow it back down against UNC.

You slow it down against Louisville because the Cardinals are a team that has trouble scoring. They have good athletes though so you want to contain them and not let them get out on runouts and get easy baskets. You want to make them play the halfcourt game and that's not their strength. Against UConn, you don't want to slow it down because that plays to their strength which is their halfcourt defense. You have no chance consistently trying to score baskets in the halfcourt against Thabeet and Adrien so you want to force the issue with them and try to get them scrambling around and out of position. Against UNC, you don't have either option. They have size and speed. You try to slow it down but they invite you to shoot because they'll leave you open opportunities. It's reminiscent of a Paul Westhead kind of defense where he'll give you some shots just so he can have the opportunity to get the ball back. He used to preach how he'd give you a layup so that you'd take it and he'd get the ball back to shoot three's and even if you had every intention of trying to slow it down, those open looks would get too inviting. Next thing you know, you are playing at a faster pace than you want to and UNC has jumped out on one of those 12-2 or 18-4 runs and now you HAVE to up your tempo and come of out your game plan because you have score more.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Was just looking at Michigan State guys from the Izzo era and he's had exactly three players that went on to average 10 PPG any season in the NBA. Mo Peterson was there all four (actually five) years but Richardson was only there two (and averaged 5 PPG in his first) and Zach Randolph was only there for one season. Has any coach had such a level of success in the past 15 years with less NBA talent? Anyone even close?

The tough part of this is that over the last 15 years, few have had as much success as Izzo has...PERIOD.

You did forget about Charlie Bell who averaged double figures for Milwaukee at least one season. I get your point though.

I dont think its ENTIRELY fair to judge the level of talent a coach recruits by how many guys he has that end up being successful in the NBA. Tom Izzo has exactly half of the last ten Michigan Mr. Basketball award winners. He has had 8 mcdonalds all americans. Sounds to me like he is getting some players.

NBA talent and College talent are two different things. There are players who's games are extremely effective at the college level but arent effective at the next level (Cleaves!). Look at Hansborough. Is he not an extremely successful college player? He has been one of the top 10 players in college basketball for the last four years.

Look at the last North Carolina team to win the championship before this one. Felton is the only one that looks like he will have a decent NBA career. May, Mccants, et al were uber talents in college and coming out of high school. Can we look back and say that Roy Williams did a great job with little talent that year?

Izzo has had an abundant amount of college level talent and has done a masterful job with it. The accomplishments of those players at the next level, or lack thereof, is no reflection of how good they were while at State.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The tough part of this is that over the last 15 years, few have had as much success as Izzo has...PERIOD.

You did forget about Charlie Bell who averaged double figures for Milwaukee at least one season. I get your point though.

I dont think its ENTIRELY fair to judge the level of talent a coach recruits by how many guys he has that end up being successful in the NBA. Tom Izzo has exactly half of the last ten Michigan Mr. Basketball award winners. He has had 8 mcdonalds all americans. Sounds to me like he is getting some players.

NBA talent and College talent are two different things. There are players who's games are extremely effective at the college level but arent effective at the next level (Cleaves!). Look at Hansborough. Is he not an extremely successful college player? He has been one of the top 10 players in college basketball for the last four years.

Look at the last North Carolina team to win the championship before this one. Felton is the only one that looks like he will have a decent NBA career. May, Mccants, et al were uber talents in college and coming out of high school. Can we look back and say that Roy Williams did a great job with little talent that year?

Izzo has had an abundant amount of college level talent and has done a masterful job with it. The accomplishments of those players at the next level, or lack thereof, is no reflection of how good they were while at State.

remmeber that powerful '85 gtown team - does that make JT a bad coach because only Pat Ewing made it big time on the next level, wingate and reggie williams were busts and the other guard didn't even make the pros after 1 yr

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

You slow it down against Louisville because the Cardinals are a team that has trouble scoring. They have good athletes though so you want to contain them and not let them get out on runouts and get easy baskets. You want to make them play the halfcourt game and that's not their strength. Against UConn, you don't want to slow it down because that plays to their strength which is their halfcourt defense. You have no chance consistently trying to score baskets in the halfcourt against Thabeet and Adrien so you want to force the issue with them and try to get them scrambling around and out of position. Against UNC, you don't have either option. They have size and speed. You try to slow it down but they invite you to shoot because they'll leave you open opportunities. It's reminiscent of a Paul Westhead kind of defense where he'll give you some shots just so he can have the opportunity to get the ball back. He used to preach how he'd give you a layup so that you'd take it and he'd get the ball back to shoot three's and even if you had every intention of trying to slow it down, those open looks would get too inviting. Next thing you know, you are playing at a faster pace than you want to and UNC has jumped out on one of those 12-2 or 18-4 runs and now you HAVE to up your tempo and come of out your game plan because you have score more.

Gales, you take your shot that's it. MSU was not doing that.

Against Louisville, they stayed under control against Louisville's full court press. They got through the press, and then slowed it down. Last night was no where near that. They pressed themselves and didn't give themselves any chance whatsoever.

[gales0678]

crown - lousiville can't score in the half court like UNC

unc scored more points in 20 minutes than louisville did in 40 minutes against msu - don't you think there is a large talent gap between the 2 teams

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by gales0678

remmeber that powerful '85 gtown team - does that make JT a bad coach because only Pat Ewing made it big time on the next level, wingate and reggie williams were busts and the other guard didn't even make the pros after 1 yr

I think Snipe was saying that makes izzo a good coach because he wins with little talent. I dont disagree (double negative-bad,bad,bad) that he is a good coach. He's a wonderful coach. I just scoff at the idea that he does it with not a lot of talent.

Your example is an excellent one. Look at that georgetown team. They were amazing. They pressed people out of existence. Any of those players could have started for virtually any team in the country. So they didnt do well in the pros? Doesnt matter.

I use to say that the 87 Indiana hoosier team was a testament to how great a coach Bob Knight was. They were the only NCAA champ that i recall that won a title with no 1st round draft picks (present or future) on the team. Think about that. But on further review, they had excellent college talent. Steve Alford was a 4 year all american, olympian and one of the best players ever to come out of the state of indiana. Daryl Thomas was a wonderful college player. Ricky Calloway was a good college player. There was plenty of talent on that team. Its just that none of that talent translated into pro talent.