2015: American Pharoah becomes 12th Triple Crown winner

[Revidere]

Cannot get the image of Louise Fletcher watching Todd Schrupp and Paul LoDuca out of my head now.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Cannot get the image of Louise Fletcher watching Todd Schrupp and Paul LoDuca out of my head now.

scary, ain't it?

[Indian Charlie]

One who flew over the Derby Trail?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

One who flew over the Derby Trail?

[tector]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I preferred Sometimes a Great Notion.

Much better book.

[tector]

All the infighting aside, Haskin's "profiling", etc., it strikes me it is MUCH, MUCH harder to win the TC than in days past due to:

1. Changes in the breed
2. Changes in preferred training methods (largely a function of 1)
3. Changes in trainer tactics as to which races to participate in (largely a function of 2)
4. Field sizes

The Derby winner is being asked to do things that no other quality horse is ever asked to do today. Meanwhile, everybody else picks their spots and can adhere to a far more normal regimen, even though they are asked to go what is now a freakish distance in the Belmont.

Any horse that ever gets across those 3 wires first in only 5 weeks has done an unbelievably difficult thing in our present time--which, until equine-accommodating time machines are built, is the only time in which they can race. What is the most sensible bet is not something that can be determined until there is a live tote board. But I assume every racing fan is rooting for this horse.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by tector

Any horse that ever gets across those 3 wires first in only 5 weeks has done an unbelievably difficult thing in our present time--which, until equine-accommodating time machines are built, is the only time in which they can race. What is the most sensible bet is not something that can be determined until there is a live tote board. But I assume every racing fan is rooting for this horse.

This fan certainly is.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by tector

But I assume every racing fan is rooting for this horse.

Suddenly there are requirements for what horses one must root for in order to be considered a racing fan?

I hate to tell you, but one of the very best things about this great game is that the above is the very opposite of true.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Suddenly there are requirements for what horses one must root for in order to be considered a racing fan?

I hate to tell you, but one of the very best things about this great game is that the above is the very opposite of true.

I hate to agree with you, but I do.

However, he's probably referring to the casual racing fan.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by tector

All the infighting aside, Haskin's "profiling", etc., it strikes me it is MUCH, MUCH harder to win the TC than in days past due to:

1. Changes in the breed
2. Changes in preferred training methods (largely a function of 1)
3. Changes in trainer tactics as to which races to participate in (largely a function of 2)
4. Field sizes

The Derby winner is being asked to do things that no other quality horse is ever asked to do today. Meanwhile, everybody else picks their spots and can adhere to a far more normal regimen, even though they are asked to go what is now a freakish distance in the Belmont.

Any horse that ever gets across those 3 wires first in only 5 weeks has done an unbelievably difficult thing in our present time--which, until equine-accommodating time machines are built, is the only time in which they can race. What is the most sensible bet is not something that can be determined until there is a live tote board. But I assume every racing fan is rooting for this horse.

i don't think it's changes in the breed. the best is still going to be the best. changes in training-again, across the board. tactics, see one and two.

field size, imo, is the number one reason it's gotten more difficult.
we all know that overall the number of horses faced each year by a potential tc winner is greater than what it was in days passed. there might still have been new shooters, but a four horse field would conceivably be easier to conquer than a 10-12 horse field...and don't even get me started on the 20 horse field we now see regularly in ky.
one other you didn't mention-jockey tactics. used to be jocks rode their horse-now they tend to ride the favorite and take turns going after him. they don't ride to win, but to make the other 'lose' because they don't think he deserves it i guess.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I hate to agree with you, but I do.

However, he's probably referring to the casual racing fan.

i'm becoming damned sick and tired of hearing about casual fans. it's like having only express lanes open at the store-shouldn't you cater to the folks with a full buggy who are spending lots more money and keeping the lights on?

[OldDog]

What's that -- like those of us who occasionally wear shorts to the track?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm becoming damned sick and tired of hearing about casual fans. it's like having only express lanes open at the store-shouldn't you cater to the folks with a full buggy who are spending lots more money and keeping the lights on?

Most fans start as casual fans, I guess.

If you are actually asking me who I'd cater to, well, attendance would be quite small.

I get what you mean though. I'm just not sure what relevance who you are catering towards has on cheering for AP to win the TC.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by OldDog

What's that -- like those of us who occasionally wear shorts to the track?

Yes, and the occasional wife beater shirt to go with those shorts.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yes, and the occasional wife beater shirt to go with those shorts.

I'm no occasional wife beater.

[tector]

I am going to bet whatever makes sense to bet. But if somebody is seriously considering what is best for racing, you are out of your self-absorbed effing mind if you think it is NOT a TC. Playing "Lucy with the football" on the general public has gotten old--try listening to something other than an echo chamber such as this one. There is a larger world out there.

If you don't give a crap about growing the game (or even seeing it wither away less slowly), wish for whatever the hell you want--nobody can or will take away your petty miserableness. Enjoy it, instead of a life.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by OldDog

I'm no occasional wife beater.

Not sure this is the forum to brag about beating your wife regularly.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by tector

I am going to bet whatever makes sense to bet. But if somebody is seriously considering what is best for racing, you are out of your self-absorbed effing mind if you think it is NOT a TC. Playing "Lucy with the football" on the general public has gotten old--try listening to something other than an echo chamber such as this one. There is a larger world out there.

If you don't give a crap about growing the game (or even seeing it wither away less slowly), wish for whatever the hell you want--nobody can or will take away your petty miserableness. Enjoy it, instead of a life.

Well said Mark!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by tector

I am going to bet whatever makes sense to bet. But if somebody is seriously considering what is best for racing, you are out of your self-absorbed effing mind if you think it is NOT a TC. Playing "Lucy with the football" on the general public has gotten old--try listening to something other than an echo chamber such as this one. There is a larger world out there.

If you don't give a crap about growing the game (or even seeing it wither away less slowly), wish for whatever the hell you want--nobody can or will take away your petty miserableness. Enjoy it, instead of a life.

I have no doubt everyone wants the game to grow. We love it, thats how we keep it around.
that said, many think having a shot at a tc generates more interest than actually getting a winner would. That interest sould go down in the first years after a winner. Id love to find out if thats true!

And ic, it doesnt have anything to do with it. Just tired of any criticisms being met with 'well, casual fans.....'

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who knew Triple Crown winners had a profile. Did Smarty Jones get caught by Birdstone because he suddenly realized at the eighth pole that he wasn't 2YO champion?

I thought he got caught because he realized he was by Elusive Quality out of a Smile mare..