Another easy work for Curlin

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I can't believe you are concerned with a workout and how strenuous it was or wasn't.

In order to show improved early speed, like he will probably need to in order to fall into that trip....it would have helped if he'd have worked in a manner that could put him on his toes a little more.

As you know....the speed horses show through the early stages of races can be tweaked by how they are handled coming into the race.

[tycharles01]

A bad trip for SS is someone blocking the rail.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

In order to show improved early speed, like he will probably need to in order to fall into that trip....it would have helped if he'd have worked in a manner that could put him on his toes a little more.

As you know....the speed horses show through the early stages of races can be tweaked by how they are handled coming into the race.

What you say is true, but if I was going that deep to figure out who I would or would not bet, I'd find another race. Being up close is probably not a good idea in my opinion, but I guess we'll see on Saturday.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Please tell me all I have been wrong about.....

Or are you just playing the role of the warm-up act for ARyan again?

It is obvious that a few people on here do not value your opinion based on your continued stubborn aversion to admit when you were just wrong in your handicapping. Nobody, certainly not myself or anyone on this board, is 100% correct on every opinion on a horse or race. You are no different.

After Saturday, it will be very interesting to see what excuses you will come up with for why all the hypotheses you played out for everyone to read didn't pan out in reality.

At least you have some practice at doing so...

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Miraja, I think you are a bit off here.

Wouldn't be the first time!!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by miraja2

What happened to "doing the work?"
Please tell us all the exact number of minutes we should all spend handicapping each race, and what exactly we should look at and what we shouldn't. Apparently you are the only one that knows this information.

I think CJ was just saying better value can be found elsewhere...and I think he's right.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think CJ was just saying better value can be found elsewhere...and I think he's right.

My reaction to his post in this thread had more to do with something he posted in a different thread that I took as a slight. Perhaps he didn't mean it that way. Oh well, let's move on.
I don't want to hijack TWO threads just because apparently I am unusually irritable today.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by miraja2

My reaction to his post in this thread had more to do with something he posted in a different thread that I took as a slight. Perhaps he didn't mean it that way. Oh well, let's move on.
I don't want to hijack TWO threads just because apparently I am unusually irritable today.

I repsonded in the other thread, I didn't mean any ill will.

As for your sig, I'll take the Silver Charm/Free House/Captain Bodgit race, mostly because I was there.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ARyan

At least you have some practice at doing so...

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[herkhorse]

[quote=the_fat_man]It all depends; it's relative.

Is HS gonna have everything his own way as he did in the Derby?

Just how did HS have things his own way? He set honest fractions, and held on for a game 2nd, while all the other horses that tried to go with him backed up the track.

[10 pnt move up]

[quote=herkhorse]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

It all depends; it's relative.

Is HS gonna have everything his own way as he did in the Derby?

Just how did HS have things his own way? He set honest fractions, and held on for a game 2nd, while all the other horses that tried to go with him backed up the track.

yea, he ran quick, but a talented front runner left alone on the lead, well the faster they go the better in my book...there is a large gap IMO in pressured pace and fast pace, to me Hard Spun set a fast pace.....you want to see a pressured pace, and it was fast as well, watch Holy Bull in the Travers in 94', he still won.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I will give you that he is being very stubborn about this issue, I have no idea why. But I will say I have read DrugS ramblings for awhile now and he is about as sharp as I have seen. He's like a horse racing Rainman. Now, if he were a bit better looking he might be perfect, but hey, who is?

I didn't say he wasn't sharp, just that when he is wrong, just say, "Hey, I missed that one." Not make up trip excuses or not give a horse/jock/trainer some credit.

That was my point, not that he is a dullard when it comes to horse racing or handicapping.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I will give you that he is being very stubborn about this issue, I have no idea why.

We will learn more on Saturday.

If Street Sense wins--or gets beat a very short margin by a perfect trip aided Hard Spun or Curlin--without SS getting another perfect rail trip....I will have no trouble saying "I'm totally wrong about him....he's unarguably the best 3yo colt around."

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Everyone knows how pretty I am already.....

In my opinion, Hard Spun did get to take advantage of using his preferred front-running tactics, and he also had the advantage of racing over the slightly favorable inside path.

However, Hard Spun earned BOTH the clear early lead, and rail position, because he ran very fast early to achieve both.

Everyone knew the pace would be to Street Sense's benefit going in, and the same should apply to the Preakness.

However Street Sense did not earn his trip. IMO, it was a combination of what will be remembered as a historically great ride, combined with the misjudgement of a few other jockeys (Zanjero's especially) that allowed him to pass 16 horses without leaving the rail.

Now, deep closers are ALMOST NEVER supposed to get trips like that--and Street Sense has three of them in his last four races. Why? IMO, because he has a jocked who's both commited to riding the rail and skilled at it. And also importantly...Street Sense has an uncommonly good turn-of-foot (by far his best asset) that allows him to take advantage of an opening, before it has time to close on him.

Just like in the Derby---I believe he can win the Preakness if he gets his trip, if he doesn't get his trip, I think he'll finish 2nd or 3rd....and I REALLY don't think he'll get his trip this time...though, I said the same going into the Derby.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Everyone knows how pretty I am already.....

In my opinion, Hard Spun did get to take advantage of using his preferred front-running tactics, and he also had the advantage of racing over the slightly favorable inside path.

However, Hard Spun earned BOTH the clear early lead, and rail position, because he ran very fast early to achieve both.

Everyone knew the pace would be to Street Sense's benefit going in, and the same should apply to the Preakness.

However Street Sense did not earn his trip. IMO, it was a combination of what will be remembered as a historically great ride, combined with the misjudgement of a few other jockeys (Zanjero's especially) that allowed him to pass 16 horses without leaving the rail.

Now, deep closers are ALMOST NEVER supposed to get trips like that--and Street Sense has three of them in his last four races. Why? IMO, because he has a jocked who's both commited to riding the rail and skilled at it. And also importantly...Street Sense has an uncommonly good turn-of-foot (by far his best asset) that allows him to take advantage of an opening, before it has time to close on him.

Just like in the Derby---I believe he can win the Preakness if he gets his trip, if he doesn't get his trip, I think he'll finish 2nd or 3rd....and I REALLY don't think he'll get his trip this time...though, I said the same going into the Derby.

I actually agree with this, but with that said Street Sense goes three wide both turns and runs off again I wont be floored either, lets face it he gassed the two strongest fields he has faced.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

There's almost no way he runs worse than 3rd....the only way I can see that happen is if Borel gets him stopped cold right in the middle of that one big run he has, while trying to be sneak through.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah, I agree with most of it as well. The only way I would be shocked is if he was up the track. But I hope if he does run second or 3rd we don't see a thread or two about how overrated he is, or how he didn't have a perfect set up, because it would be wrong. Like you said, he has won the 2 biggest races for his generation so far and done it impressively.

I feel that so far he is clearly the leader of his generation. But his real impressive victories came with these rail skimming trips, that are in my opinion somewhat odd, and flattering.

I agree with DrugS in the sense that I would have more confidence in Street Sense if he would have on his resume a sparkling performance when having to race around the outside, a path which he is destined to take at some point. Perhaps on Saturday.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I hear ya. And at what will be very low odds I'll just be rooting Saturday because I'd like to see him with a shot at the triple crown. I can't make a case to bet anyone else because as impressive as Hard Spun's Derby was, like I said he had a pretty good setup as well. And really the only race that he has looked not good in was a race where he didn't have a dream trip so he has plenty of question marks IMO.

I do not like Curlin at all. And can't see either Pletchers winning. I don't think King of the Roxy is fast enough and hope he goes back sprinting after this. I have no idea what to make of CQ other than I don't like him. I don't really get what they are doing with him. Pletcher thought he would be better off fresh for the Derby so he lays him off 8 weeks. Now he's bringing him back in 2 weeks after initially saying he wouldn't. I don't like it at all.

Me too, I'll be watching as a fan, hoping to see a nice race. Too many uncertainties for me to dive in with a monetary opinion.

[blackthroatedwind]

I am only sorry that DrugS can't be sitting with me for the Preakness, as I am right next to the owners, and I think it would only be fitting that DrugS should be there to give Mr. Tafel a hug right after the race should Street Sense win.

It's exactly the moment the public needs to supplant both the Nafzger/Genter moment and finally put the pain from last year's Preakness to rest.

[cmorioles]

That would bring me to tears.