A new poll - for men only

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It isn't just the time, it is the fundamentals of the game. On a very slow dirt track, speed horses still have an advantage. Check the winterized surface at Mnr, or some of the slow days at Crc and a few others. It isn't just about the time.

What has really happened is that 6f races are now like 7f races, 7f races like 1 mile and 1/16 races, and 1 mile 1/4 races are like 1 mile 1/2 on dirt. I don't even care about the betting part. It is certainly possible to figure this stuff and make money.

Imagine though, if you will, a sport where horses like Seattle Slew and Dr. Fager wouldn't have been able to win a route race. Safely Kept and Xtra Heat would have won a few, but hardly been dominant. The list could go on and on. That is what you have at Keeneland and Delmar right now.

There is nothing I like more than seeing a horse go fast and dare the others to try and keep up. The best horses ever could run fast for a long time. Now, that is absolute death. Horses are basically being dragged back and begged not to run until the very end. Why are horses running fast in the first place? It is the survival instict, no? Watch horses in the wild. You won't see a lot of them fighting to be in the back when being chased by a lion.

Again, I'm all for saving a horses. There just has to be a better way than this.

A lot of what you say is very reasonable and true. However in todays "sport" horses like Dr. Fager and Seattle Slew would never run enough to become what they were back in the day. The truth is that polytrack may save the sport by confusing the breeders into making bad stallion choices which may inevitably turn the bloodstock markets downward making it less economically viable to retire horses early. Sound like a crazy theory but the pyrmaid scheme which exists now is going to sap all the talent and eventually interest out of the upper levels of the racing game until the time where it is not so damn profitable to not run and instead just create breeding stock.

[cmorioles]

I do realize there are some pluses to the fake surfaces, including potentially longer careers for top horses. It could also provide, eventually, some needed stamina being brought back into the breeding shed. At some point, we might actually even have a horse that could compete in a real top class turf race.

I just think there has to be a way to make it perform more like dirt. Imagine Slew trying to sew up the TC going 3 miles, errr, 1 1/2 miles, on a Belmont polytrack, yikes!

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It isn't just the time, it is the fundamentals of the game. On a very slow dirt track, speed horses still have an advantage. Check the winterized surface at Mnr, or some of the slow days at Crc and a few others. It isn't just about the time.

What has really happened is that 6f races are now like 7f races, 7f races like 1 mile and 1/16 races, and 1 mile 1/4 races are like 1 mile 1/2 on dirt. I don't even care about the betting part. It is certainly possible to figure this stuff and make money.

Imagine though, if you will, a sport where horses like Seattle Slew and Dr. Fager wouldn't have been able to win a route race. Safely Kept and Xtra Heat would have won a few, but hardly been dominant. The list could go on and on. That is what you have at Keeneland and Delmar right now.

There is nothing I like more than seeing a horse go fast and dare the others to try and keep up. The best horses ever could run fast for a long time. Now, that is absolute death. Horses are basically being dragged back and begged not to run until the very end. Why are horses running fast in the first place? It is the survival instict, no? Watch horses in the wild. You won't see a lot of them fighting to be in the back when being chased by a lion.

Again, I'm all for saving a horses. There just has to be a better way than this.

The track is slow to be sure. Speed horses are at a big disadvantage to be sure.
BUT, if Seattle Slew in his prime had been in that race yesterday, I am pretty confident that he could have handled that bunch........no matter the surface.

[cmorioles]

Seeing how not a single horse has won on the lead at over a mile, I suspect you would be tearing up some tickets. We'll never know, but that is my opinion.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Which would be more enjoyable?

Watching a grade 1 race run over the Del Mar poly track?

OR

Watching a 385 pound woman do a strip teaze?

Big chicks give good head lol

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Seeing how not a single horse has won on the lead at over a mile, I suspect you would be tearing up some tickets. We'll never know, but that is my opinion.

Yes, and I agree that the surface is ridiculous, but none of those horses on the lead were even REMOTELY in the same ballpark as Seattle Slew. He could do things other horses simply couldn't do. I would say he was a tad better than yesterday's leader AP Xcellent.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Which would be more enjoyable?

Watching a grade 1 race run over the Del Mar poly track?

OR

Watching a 385 pound woman do a strip teaze?

Everybody desires a perfect world..

one problem.. what would everybody bitch and moan about?

[viscount26]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

Big chicks give good head lol

Interesting

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

Big chicks give good head lol

I just don't what to say...

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by dylbert

Randy Moss made great point toward end of broadcast -- if any of top three from this race make BC Classic at Monmouth, they would be at least 30-1 morning line picks.

I heard him make that comment, as if to somehow invalidate the result of the race. Truth be told, the Pacific Classic was a very weak race, and no matter who the top three finishers were, with the exception of Lava Man, they would probably be at least 30-1 morning line in the BC Classic whether the Del Mar race was contested over Polytrack or a conventional dirt surface.

[MisterB]

Niether one appeal to me.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by MisterB

Niether one appeal to me.

ok, you want a 385 lb man instead?

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It's really not about bitching and moaning for the sake of doing it. Surely by watching the graded races at Del Mar yesterday that were not on the turf, you could see that there is a problem. Like Miraja said, it's not about blanket statements for either side. Most fans are all for safety, but there has to be some other way than what is going on at Del Mar right now. There is nothing even remotely close to exciting about the racing there right now.

It's pretty exciting when you win.

I could care less if they run the mile and a quarter in 2:20.. if I have the winner, then I'm a big fan.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

That's a great response. Listen, I'm a gambler as well, it's fine. but I am also a fan of the sport and there is nothing exciting for a fan of the sport on Del Mar's poly right now. I await another brilliant retort....

so I'm an idiot you say.. fine..

everybody's in the game for different reasons. What if I don't care about the times, or who's horse of the year, or if so and so gets his grade 1.

What keeps this sport going is gambling.

People are still betting on it.. so bitching and moaning and beating this dead horse is not going to change it.

damn.. deal with it.

yours truly,
great and brilliant.

[Byebyemermaid]

I contemplated what to do and my decision is to make the stripper watch the race at Del- Mar and i'll atempt to do the striptease and if i make a $1 i'm way ahead.

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know you well enough to have an opinion on your idiocy, but I think you are sort of missing the point. This is NOT a gambling concern that I am talking about. I realize people are gambling on it, people will gamble on anything. I'll deal with that if NY ends up going to poly.

It's a racing issue. the racing isn't interesting. You obviously aren't a fan, which is fine. But as a fan, it sucks. Not bitching and moaning, just saying it sucks.

cool

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm curious Titan. Around 2 weeks ago you were calling the poly crap and that you would only let yourself invest $12 on the "stuff". What brought about the big change of opinion?

watched enough of it and figured it out.. I guess.

It's definitely different than handicapping dirt

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know you well enough to have an opinion on your idiocy, but I think you are sort of missing the point. This is NOT a gambling concern that I am talking about. I realize people are gambling on it, people will gamble on anything. I'll deal with that if NY ends up going to poly.

It's a racing issue. the racing isn't interesting. You obviously aren't a fan, which is fine. But as a fan, it sucks. Not bitching and moaning, just saying it sucks.

i simply don't get it either. specifically what sucks? I thoroughly enjoyed it and i consider myself a fan. probably some of the people that set a Del Mar wagering record yesterday also enjoyed it.
is it all because of the final time?

[Cajungator26]

I hate it that chicks can't have a say in this thread.

Oops.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I don't know how else I can say I am not talking about wagering. The race was a joke. I don't really know how else to explain it other than say if there was no poly. If I told you Student Council won the Pacific Classic you would tell me I am nuts.
Well he did, strictly because of the poly. Also, since he had never really showed a fondness for the poly, it just doesn't make sense. I know, Jerry Brown liked him, blah blah. Maybe I am a bit of a traditionalist but it has ruined racing out west for me. And this is not me being sour because I lost. I made one bet at Del Mar yesterday, a turf race. I won't tell you if I hit it or not, because I wouldn't want to be a dreaded redboarder. You like it, because you have had some success on it. I tend to think your opinion might be different if you didn't. We saw how quick Titan's changed.

Maybe I'm missing the point too -- but I enjoyed yesterday's race.

On poly, on dirt, anywhere -- that would have been a stupid weak Pacific Classic. I do understand those lamenting how speed horses don't hold their speed on some of the artifical surfaces, but in a way, I don't think that's an entirely bad thing for the future of the breed.

Someone above (cm?) mentioned that he used to love watching horses blaze out and dare someone to catch them -- maybe we're talking specifically about Del Mar only with that feeling, but I certainly enjoyed watching horses do that, and at a place like Arlington, still find it thrilling to watch that happen. Obviously Del Mar's surface needs to be worked on a bit and they'll need to adjust it to the weather/other outside factors, but I consider myself a "fan" of the game and I still enjoyed watching yesterday's race. It looked like a crapshoot going in, and looked like a crapshoot coming out, so I'm not seeing the problem. When you've got a field comprised of mostly glorified West Coast mid-to-high-end claimers, isn't Student Council winning a GI sort of the thing you should expect to be possible?