George Carlin on Education and the owners of America

[SCUDSBROTHER]

No,I would not equate car insurance to health care insurance coverage.See,this is the problem(people don't separate a necessity from a minor luxury.)That's a big problem.We put all these things together...health insurance,car insurance,home owners insurance etc.etc....That's why we are so willing to accept the fact that people don't have health insurance..."They spent the money on something else." That makes it really easy to rationalize (and accept) that people don't have medical coverage.Americans are so competitive with others that they don't ever establish a definite idea about what necessities are needed by human beings.Cars(and car insurance) are not necessities for living.There are buses,and subways.If you live in the country,and couldn't get to work without a car,then what would you do? Get a job in another place.One which you could use public transportation to get to.Healthcare should not be thought of in the way you described it(one of many possible things you can spend your money on.) It's a necessity.It should be paid for in taxes like we pay for fire,police,military,and public education.Other countries know this.We are unique in having this idea that health coverage should be linked to personal wealth,or circumstance.I AM NOT talking about perfect medical care.I am talking about what you described(treatment for strokes,and other common treatable conditions) routine surgeries etc. Nurse practitioners can do the great majority of what we think doctors have to do.We have made the term "doctor" equivalent to a minor rock star,and it results in our healthcare dollars going to pay for the expensive toys doctors play with in their free time.The lawsuits got to go.We need a few good doctors(who want to do it because they enjoy it,)and a lot fewer lawyers.Too many people are trying to make huge money off of people's illnesses. That's why we have so many uninsured(we are spending the funds on expensive cars ETC. for DOCTORS AND LAWYERS.)If we stopped doing that,then everybody could be insured properly.

[Danzig]

i don't pretend to know the answer on how to fix the problem. i know there is one, and the current way of doing things isn't working. but i don't think the answer is for the govt to take it over. with the rampant fraud and waste they already have in other programs, the beauracracy involved in every facet of govt, i just don't think that would be a solution-i think it would just be another bad way of handling something.
the problem begins with people failing to recognize that health ins is a must-have. but how do you force people to apply for the coverage offered at work? you can't.
but then those same people find they need it, too late. then they have a mound of bills (that they wouldn't have had they gotten the offered insurance), and that they can't pay. so those of us who do have insurance pay higher premiums and our ins co's pay outrageous bills, and we pay the deductibles and copays, because we are also paying for all those who don't/won't/can't.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't pretend to know the answer on how to fix the problem. i know there is one, and the current way of doing things isn't working. but i don't think the answer is for the govt to take it over. with the rampant fraud and waste they already have in other programs, the beauracracy involved in every facet of govt, i just don't think that would be a solution-i think it would just be another bad way of handling something.
the problem begins with people failing to recognize that health ins is a must-have. but how do you force people to apply for the coverage offered at work? you can't.
but then those same people find they need it, too late. then they have a mound of bills (that they wouldn't have had they gotten the offered insurance), and that they can't pay. so those of us who do have insurance pay higher premiums and our ins co's pay outrageous bills, and we pay the deductibles and copays, because we are also paying for all those who don't/won't/can't.

LOL..You can't do worse than what we now have for a healthcare system.We spend a lot more on it than other countries do,and we get much less(because lawyers,insurance company CEOS, and some types of doctors are ripping everybody off.) There are some things in society where a service needs to be provided without somebody trying to make a fortune.

1)fire protection

2)police

3)military

4)education

5)healthcare

You can add energy(#6) to that,too.Countries who have it run by state run companies are getting much better services than the private energy companies here.They've just butchered the typical American(along with politicians like Bush helping them.)Energy is too important to allow C.E.O. S TO GET 400 MILIION A YEAR,AND companies pocketing 10 billion a quarter.That money should be going right into healthcare,education ,military etc. Enron raped California (with BUSH' help) back in 2001.You can't do worse than this monoploy.Private industry does a very poor job(just screws everybody as much as they can get away with) with the 6 things mentioned above.They are too important to have pigs at the trough ripping everybody off.That's exactly what oil and energy companies have done(rip Americans off.) The Government does a good job running the 4 (out of 6) things mentioned above.People complain about the public education system,but teachers can't make people value the education they are offering .They offer it,and if people don't make their kids learn,then don't blame the education system.If you want to blame somebody,then blame people making kids that are brothersbyanothermother.Public school teachers are not the problem.

It is a bit of a double edged sword in many sectors.

Private companies bottom line is profit, so they are
willing to break rules and screw people if they can
turn a profit. Even if it is short term in many cases.
This does happen. But there are companies in business
for the longterm that have provided innovation the
government could not have possibly accomplished.
And have made peoples lives better, especially in
medicine. A huge % of new drugs to help all sorts of
illnesses are discovered and produced in the US. A bit
of government help is also involved.

The government provides very little incentive for workers
to actually do a good job though. The government does a
horrible job at many things requiring vigiliance of others
money and efficiency. There is no incentive for running a
tight ship in many cases. But in some cases, especially local
governments, police, fire, and other services are quite good
because it is done locally and with pride.

It is a complex problem that will always be debated.
How much of a role does government need to play in
providing various services to the people who the government
represents.

I would also argue on the whole the public school system
does work in middle class to affluent areas. But in many
urban and some rural areas, its very poor. And it is completely
understandable. What teacher in their right mind wants
to go into a war zone where parents put their kids on
the bus so they can be done with them. And some rural
areas might be dominated by people (usually older folks)
who are unwilling to help fund public schools so they
have to drag "teachers" off the streets because the pay
is just above a Whataburger.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I think the key is to ask yourself if something is a necessity for a country's citizens.If it is a necessity.then it's much cheaper for the Government to do it than the private sector.Look at the oil companies.They are charging the American People 10 billion a quarter(often) in profit. Even if the government kept gas prices high(to reduce consumption) it could use those billions for many necessary things(healthcare,education,etc.) the government workers(in the long run..with decent pensions etc. that private industry won't pay) cost more,but people aren't noticing that you cut out the business owners who isn't around to pocket billions.I am talking about necessary services and products.Not anything that could be considered optional....fire,police,military,education,healthc are,energy(oil etc./solar/agri-fuels.)

[timmgirvan]

Diogenes is still lookin.......

[skippy3481]

More people should have healthcare, but the government should not run it. Name one country where socialized medicine has ever worked? I won't give you much time beacause there isen't one. Thats why canadians stream across the border to get medical help if something really goes wrong. Just ask yourself one question, If you had rare form of cancer..... what country would you seek medical treatment in?

[Mortimer]

The country nearest the Tropic of Cancer.








( I believe it's him....right? )

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

The country nearest the Tropic of Cancer.








( I believe it's him....right? )

oh boy..

[Mortimer]

ror!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

More people should have healthcare, but the government should not run it. Name one country where socialized medicine has ever worked? I won't give you much time beacause there isen't one. Thats why canadians stream across the border to get medical help if something really goes wrong. Just ask yourself one question, If you had rare form of cancer..... what country would you seek medical treatment in?

As a country,we spend more on healthcare than those countries with socialized medicine.They underfund it(which is what politicians do to programs they don't agree with.)If you don't fund it properly,then of course it isn't gunna be satisfying .To answer your question,if I could get treated anywhere I want,it would be Germany,Switzerland,or Scandinavia.I don't know where the idea comes from that says it's more efficient to pay a middleman huge profits for services to citizens.It doesn't make any sense.It's stupid.If you ever just looked at what you're talking about,you would see that it's cheaper to provide a service if you aren't trying to make a billionaire a billion more dollars. Simply look at PGRDN'S school district.They are out to do what? Make profit? No,they are there to provide a service.Nobody is getting rich off that school district.If it was a for profit school district,then they would have worse healthcare for teachers,and worse pensions for them(if any.) That's how they would afford to pay some guy a 10 mil a year for owning it.Well,just ask PGRDN why he doesn't teach at a private school.

[Mortimer]

All FAR from the Tropic of Cancer.

[skippy3481]

Scuds, how then, do we raise enough funds to properly fund it?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Scuds, how then, do we raise enough funds to properly fund it?

Bust out the teachers retirement stash..

[Mortimer]

nyuk nyuk nyuk

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Scuds, how then, do we raise enough funds to properly fund it?

good question. the only thing the govt seems to know how to fund properly is the military. certainly not social security, which is essentially a pathetic version of a pyramid scheme--and plenty of people getting SS disability who actually aren't disabled.. medicare, medicaid, both are full of fraud and waste. oh yeah, i can see our health care going in the right direction if the feds took over.

most of those services should be provided by the states, the fed govt is too bloated, too wasteful and is too far away geographically to handle many of these areas for it's citizens. if each state took care of these services, we'd all be better off.

[skippy3481]

There is no way to properly fund it without taxing the hell out of everyone. Beyond that name one situation in which the government has excelled at handling large sums of money that were earmarked for the people.

Social security-What lockbox, we'll just drop that in the general fund and spend it. What..... its bankrupt you say, how did that happen?

Medicare-Medicaid- Don't even have to comment on that.

How many trillion in debt are we now...oh yes 9 trillion dollars.

It really is not that hard to balance a budget. You can't spend more then you take in.

Thats why I don't think the National Government should handle health care. They would just botch it like everything else.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

good question. the only thing the govt seems to know how to fund properly is the military. certainly not social security, which is essentially a pathetic version of a pyramid scheme--and plenty of people getting SS disability who actually aren't disabled.. medicare, medicaid, both are full of fraud and waste. oh yeah, i can see our health care going in the right direction if the feds took over.

most of those services should be provided by the states, the fed govt is too bloated, too wasteful and is too far away geographically to handle many of these areas for it's citizens. if each state took care of these services, we'd all be better off.

Ohio's WComp. invested in rare coins.






God it was a great scam!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Scuds, how then, do we raise enough funds to properly fund it?

We are already spending more than enough on healthcare.It's not like more money needs to go in to fund it.We just need to get lawyers,and insurance companies' hands out of our healthcare money.We have the funds,but we piss it away by giving it to these 2 groups.You would rather do that then have the Gov't run it,and so we will continue to have poor healthcare in this country.

[Danzig]

they need to cap lawsuits. people need to quit treating accidents and such as winning the lottery.
i don't know how many people have already told us to get a lawyer because of my daughters wreck. no injury or anything. only thing i want is for the guy to be charged with reckless driving. what do i need a lawyer for?