Arlington safety...putting it in perspective

[The Bid]

Its just a matter of time before the same morons who pimp this stuff are calling for it to be ripped out and complaining about being lied to. Should get good once the winter rolls in again, the stuff is junk. Im personally looking forward to the excuses coming out of Turfway this winter, I wonder how many bullshit road closing stories we will get when the track is frozen or balling up 2 inches in their feet.

[miraja2]

If we could somehow manage to have a debate about the safety of polytrack AND the 2004 Belmont Stakes at the same time, we would really have achieved the most tiresome debate possible.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ex-specialist

Also, what percentage of horses broke down over the turf vs. dirt (or fake dirt). What about training breakdowns, which are never included? Its too broad a stroke to take, what's good and what's bad. The poly in Chicago seemed to play much differently to the one in Keeneland, which is a travesty. Im not sure who uses what surface, but the difference in Chicago races didnt LOOK that different. Now, how about a breakdown of where winners came from i.e. wire to wire, stalk, dead closer?

Already covered that.


http://derbytrail.com/forums/showthr...938#post260938

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Its just a matter of time before the same morons who pimp this stuff are calling for it to be ripped out and complaining about being lied to. Should get good once the winter rolls in again, the stuff is junk. Im personally looking forward to the excuses coming out of Turfway this winter, I wonder how many bullshit road closing stories we will get when the track is frozen or balling up 2 inches in their feet.

Probably going to be worse this year. Fair Grounds and Phil PArk will probably draw away a couple decent stable this year with slot horse racing and the quality of racing at TP will continue to erode. So, you'll have more bad horses at Turfway this year. Which means more breakdowns which means more bad weather closings.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by miraja2

If we could somehow manage to have a debate about the safety of polytrack AND the 2004 Belmont Stakes at the same time, we would really have achieved the most tiresome debate possible.

i'd think the most tiresome debate would be 'who's the best horse since...?'

with artificial surfaces still being fairly new, and with happenings such as baffert and zayat at del mar, breakdowns at presque isle, cancellations at the 'all weather track' at turfway, this debate will continue for some time.

[JJP]

What isn't mentioned is that AP had a prolonged bias from 2004 thru June 2006 (dead rail). Last year, when they worked on the track, whether they realized it or not, they got rid of the bias until late August. And the breakdown rate slowed considerably. The only problem was they couldn't pinpoint what the problem was, but they did fix it.

Also, do those average number of starters pertain to all races or just the Poly races? The turf races at AP invariably get big fields.

[brianwspencer]

Well maybe some people are turning away from synthetics and only betting turf races after 25 years of playing every race, but others are loving it.

I'm not a huge bettor, but I put about three times as much money into Arlington's pools this year as I ever have in any previous year. I know there are other people who felt the same way. Bigger fields and fairly run races are a pretty big attraction for me.

[cmorioles]

I'm not really trying to say that polytrack isn't safer. However, the stats I posted are AT LEAST as relevant as the stuff the pro polytrack crowd started promoting after about 1 week of the first meet. This continued until the last few months when they didn't really favor the "poly is the cure all" argument anymore.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not really trying to say that polytrack isn't safer. However, the stats I posted are AT LEAST as relevant as the stuff the pro polytrack crowd started promoting after about 1 week of the first meet. This continued until the last few months when they didn't really favor the "poly is the cure all" argument anymore.

now i'm confused, what is your point then?

i've never run across a person spouting "poly is a cure all" however there have been many that come out with a "poly is the death of racing" mantra.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not really trying to say that polytrack isn't safer. However, the stats I posted are AT LEAST as relevant as the stuff the pro polytrack crowd started promoting after about 1 week of the first meet. This continued until the last few months when they didn't really favor the "poly is the cure all" argument anymore.

thing is, it was sold as safer. but, if they have the same amount of loss overall, regardless of injury type, than it isn't safer. they need to keep track of all this--ARE there more soft tissue injuries? more hind end? virtually eliminating catastrophic breakdowns is to be applauded, but are they actually losing horses to other types of injuries? also, i saw that a study is commencing about breathing in the artificial fibers. what if they find that there is an adverse affect on the respiratory systems?

certainly we all want what is best for the horses, regardless of turf, dirt, or some sort of artificial surface.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

now i'm confused, what is your point then?

i've never run across a person spouting "poly is a cure all" however there have been many that come out with a "poly is the death of racing" mantra.

It is funny you should mention that.
I have been thinking about buying a parrot and teaching it to say:
"Poly is a cure all" instead of the more traditional, "Polly wants a cracker."

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

now i'm confused, what is your point then?

i've never run across a person spouting "poly is a cure all" however there have been many that come out with a "poly is the death of racing" mantra.

Oh please. I'm not saying your typical racing fan was, though certainly some were and that includes at this board.

Every single "story" that was fed to the press was hailing the safety and the incredible downturn in breakdowns at the polytracks when this stuff first came out. It was hailed as the savior of racing, a godsend. There was zero balance in the reporting. Now, there is just zero reporting.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

In fact, anticipate a blood bath at Santa Anita if the workout times hold like they are doing now.

A couple of horses broke down today at Santa Anita, including reportedly Drill Down, a top 2yo. I wonder if anyone's compiled any numbers yet for this track, because these are not the first major injuries since the track was opened in early September.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

A couple of horses broke down today at Santa Anita, including reportedly Drill Down, a top 2yo.

Is that the colt that ran decently (2nd or 3rd I think) in the Del Mar Futurity?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Is that the colt that ran decently (2nd or 3rd I think) in the Del Mar Futurity?

Yes he did, he ran second or third and looked to be a nice horse. I hope its not true.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Yes he did, he ran second or third and looked to be a nice horse. I hope its not true.

Horseplayerdaily had the announcement on their page earlier today.

Appears to be the truth.

[The Bid]

We shouldnt talk about the breakdowns on here, lets just stick with the bullshit

[sumitas]

i am saddened to confirm the tragedy with this link. my condolences to all.
http://www.horseplayerdaily.com/

[Scav]

Originally Posted by sumitas

i am saddened to confirm the tragedy with this link. my condolences to all.
http://www.horseplayerdaily.com/

But polytrack is the next great thing???

From what I have heard, there has been more breakdowns at Santa Anita in like two weeks of training then the WHOLE Saratoga meet. This is a third-word stat but I doubt it is wrong

[The Bid]

Its not wrong, but dont say that too loud.

Surprisingly DRF reported Latin Rhythms breaking down and now Drill Down

How sad, both nice horses. Apparently as noted in the DRF column the track didnt handle the rain. Hows that for an all weather surface. We are talking about TWP handling below freezing and snow and this track cant even handle a little rain, PUHLEASE