Funny, Considering the Number of Entries I Thought He Retired Years Ago

[Riot]

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

First, I think that one has to separate out the rumored promises and public discussion of synthetic surfaces ("they said no injuries, but a horse broke down and died", etc) with what the manufacturer's have actually maintained about them. Those opinions and statements we read are rarely one and the same.

Additionally I think it's important not to forget that synthetic surfaces were all developed based upon the physics we know about what can contribute to injury in the racehorse, in an attempt to mitigate those factors we can control.

As an aside, Dickinson is the only trainer I have ever seen that has made the following type of blanket statement (this is on his web site, referencing the Tapeta surface he uses on his farm):

"Dickinson is so confident of the surface that if a horse has a chip, fracture, or quarter crack while in training at Tapeta (TM) Farm, he will pay for the surgery to be done at the University of Pennsylvania New Bolton Center."

I've never seen any trainer, no matter where he is training, make a statement even remotely like that about the horses in his care.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

I haven't a clue. Are the horses not starting due to injury?

[blackthroatedwind]

Actually, probably the biggest fabrication told about synthetic surfaces was that they would be maintenance free. That has proven to be completely false.

As for why Dickinson's horses don't race......I have no idea. I just use the facts....and the facts are that his horses rarely, if ever, race. It hardly seems like a stretch to at least accept the possibility that Tapeta has not added to their physical welfare.

[Riot]

PETA's viewpoint goes deeper than that. They want the sport banned.

PETA wants no animals to be "owned" by humans. I have spent much money and many hours fighting PETA and their ilk.

I don't want it banned. I just want people to stop trying to pretty the sport up as something it's not.

Please point out where I tried to "pretty the sport up as something it's not"?

By simply saying I admired a jumps trainer for his publically stated views on the care of the horse?

Which caused you to say I supported the PETA viewpoint?

Fine. I like jump racing, you do not.

Just be real and accept the fact that you enjoy a sport that can be cruel to an animal. It doesn't make you evil, it makes you human.

Where have I said I don't think the sport can be cruel to an animal? In fact, I just said the opposite.

Really, Pillow, if you want to start a debate, the accepted premise is to disagree with something somebody has actually said.

Originally Posted by Riot

Where have I said I don't think the sport can be cruel to an animal? In fact, I just said the opposite.

Really, Pillow, if you want to start a debate, the accepted premise is to disagree with something somebody has actually said.

I did disagree with what you said about Dickinson.

Now I'm done with your elitist attitude. Go talk down to someone else.

[Riot]

Actually, probably the biggest fabrication told about synthetic surfaces was that they would be maintenance free. That has proven to be completely false

.

I've never seen any manufacturer call their surface maintenance-free. What I have seen is a claim to decreased maintenance, which appears to be true.

As for why Dickinson's horses don't race......I have no idea. I just use the facts....and the facts are that his horses rarely, if ever, race. It hardly seems like a stretch to at least accept the possibility that Tapeta has not added to their physical welfare.

I'm quite willing to accept that possibility, if we know that his horses are not racing because they are injured, cannot be brought fit to race, etc.

Do horses training over any artifical surface have more or less starts, generally, than those that train over conventional dirt? We'll see.

Perhaps some tracks out there (Arlington, Turfway) have some stats on number of starts per horse per meet, but I've never seen any published.

Curlin and Street Sense did well by training over artificial surfaces this year.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I did disagree with what you said about Dickinson.

Now I'm done with your elitist attitude. Go talk down to someone else.

Okay, you win!

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Riot

.



Curlin and Street Sense did well by training over artificial surfaces this year.

So, you picked two of the best horses in training and this is some sort of proof?

Oh, wait, you even got this wrong. Curlin spent the summer and fall training on the Oklahoma surface in Saratoga.

I'm not sure why you've tried to turn this conversation into a discussion of synthetic surfaces. However, I'm not particularly interested in having one. Unlike most people I have next to no data on which to make any real conclusions. So far, to me, it seems like a confusing surface that has made no positive contribution to the game whatsoever. Perhaps, and hopefully, that will change. I am open to all possibilities.

[Riot]

So, you picked two of the best horses in training and this is some sort of proof? Oh, wait, you even got this wrong. Curlin spent the summer and fall training on the Oklahoma surface in Saratoga.

No it wasn't intended as some sort of "proof", it was just a casual observation. And you're right, Curlin did spend his summer/fall at Saratoga, not on artifical surfaces.

I'm not sure why you've tried to turn this conversation into a discussion of synthetic surfaces.

Wasn't particularly, only reponding when it was brought up by others.

[blackthroatedwind]

No, what was brought up was that Dickinson profits from synthetic surfaces, and that was why he was pushing for them. This was not a criticism of synthetic surfaces, or of Michael Dickinson, as I'm quite sure if any of us were in his particular position we would be behaving similarly.

I also believe that he truly believes in these surfaces, and he certainly knows more than I do about them, but I was merely pointing out that his motives are not necessarily altruistic. There is nothing wrong with that.....but it does seem worth pointing out.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by The Bid

The guy won about 1 race every 5 months with a full barn. Im sure he will be sorely missed

Welfare of his horses, maybe that would explain why his runners averaged about 4 starts a year. That or the great surface they trained over

Speaking of 'winners', didn't Jamie Sanders get her 7th win out of 247 on Sunday?

[brockguy]

Dickinson's achievment of training the first 5 runners home in the 1983 Cheltenham Gold Cup was voted as the greatest training by Racing Post readers..so there is quite a few nice write ups about him on their site..

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No, what was brought up was that Dickinson profits from synthetic surfaces, and that was why he was pushing for them. This was not a criticism of synthetic surfaces, or of Michael Dickinson, as I'm quite sure if any of us were in his particular position we would be behaving similarly.

I also believe that he truly believes in these surfaces, and he certainly knows more than I do about them, but I was merely pointing out that his motives are not necessarily altruistic. There is nothing wrong with that.....but it does seem worth pointing out.

I've never gotten into the surface debate. I leave that for the experts. I don't have enough knowledge or perspective.

It's interesting to click on Sporting Life and see 5 pieces on his retirement...

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/

When I was new to racing, when Smarty and Rock Hard Ten and Tapit were pracitcally the only names i knew, I remember reading that Tapit was slightly injured.

I remembered seeing this guy - I didn't have a clue who he was - poking his finger in the ground. It didn't phase me... I was new and thought well maybe they all do this before races. When you have no point of reference nothing seems too surprising.

Anyway, I googled Tapeta cause I had heard about it and wrote a quick email saying sorry he was hurt and that i hoped he'd be okay cause he was a lot of fun to watch.

He was too... the way he'd look off into the stands.

I didn't expect to hear back... why would I? I just wanted to let him know his horse was thought of.

He wrote back immediately, thanked me for my interest and asked me a few questions...

I was surprised.

I answered, asked him some stuff, and he wrote back again asking for my address.

He sent me a package with signed Da Hoss win pictures, some programs, other stuff and a really sweet letter. He emailed a few more times, telling me about a 2YO he had named Bellamy Road..... stuff like that.

I'm not trying to to say anything other than he seemed like a really nice guy... kind-hearted and decent. He talked about his horses like they were his children and to a complete stranger, and I kinda wondered, in time, if they didn't seem to race that much because he babied them or feared for them. I know it sounds stupid.

If nothing else I respect him for trying to change something he saw a problem with. Actions vs words... right?

Again, I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Tapeta or any synthetic surface. I'm just a fan, he was very kind, and I wish him well.

http://www.tapeta.com/

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I've never gotten into the surface debate. I leave that for the experts. I don't have enough knowledge or perspective.

It's interesting to click on Sporting Life and see 5 pieces on his retirement...

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/

When I was new to racing, when Smarty and Rock Hard Ten and Tapit were pracitcally the only names i knew, I remember reading that Tapit was slightly injured.

I remembered seeing this guy - I didn't have a clue who he was - poking his finger in the ground. It didn't phase me... I was new and thought well maybe they all do this before races. When you have no point of reference nothing seems too surprising.

Anyway, I googled Tapeta cause I had heard about it and wrote a quick email saying sorry he was hurt and that i hoped he'd be okay cause he was a lot of fun to watch.

He was too... the way he'd look off into the stands.

I didn't expect to hear back... why would I? I just wanted to let him know his horse was thought of.

He wrote back immediately, thanked me for my interest and asked me a few questions...

I was surprised.

I answered, asked him some stuff, and he wrote back again asking for my address.

He sent me a package with singed Da Hoss win pictures, some programs, other stuff and a really sweet letter. He emailed a few more times, telling me about a 2YO he had named Bellamy Road..... stuff like that.

I'm not trying to to say anything other than he seemed like a really nice guy... kind-hearted and decent. He talked about his horses like they were his children and to a complete stranger, and I kinda wondered, in time, if they didn't seem to race that much because he babied them or feared for them. I know it sounds stupid.

If nothing else I respect him for trying to change something he saw a problem with. Actions vs words... right?

Again, I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Tapeta or any synthetic surface. I'm just a fan, he was very kind, and I wish him well.

http://www.tapeta.com/

That was very nice of him. Thanks for sharing this story.

[sumitas]

Wonderful story. I happen to believe the man when he says he wants to do what is best for the horse. And if he can make money from his improved Tapeta surface , that is well and good. I like that he jogs barefoot on aw surfaces to help him determine the cushion.

A week before the Breeders Cup Keeneland was deluged by 4 inches of rain overnight. The next day the polytrack looked as though it had never rained. Follow that up by the dirt at Monmouth and one can see the consistency and fairness of the all weather.

2 year old Sonoran Desert won last week for Sanders.

Bring on Tapeta to NY.

This guy is probably making millions. Training horses is no easy job and doesn't pay that well unless you are one of the big guys. He obviously was never going to make millions training like a Pletcher, so it was a smart move.

What I really like about the guy is he is a true horseman. He could easily have pulled a Pletcher and just had assistants do everything.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by sumitas

2 year old Sonoran Desert won last week for Sanders.

She had a claimer win on Sunday also... can't remember the name of the horse, though.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

She had a claimer win on Sunday also... can't remember the name of the horse, though.

Needanewdyejob?

[freddymo]

Yes Dickinson is making big money on Synthetic surfaces. Make no mistake he is devoted to horses and there welfare

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think they may go hand in hand.

Frankly, a great deal of things were said about synthetic surfaces when they were introduced to racing that have been proven to be completely untrue. And, this is in just the first couple of years.

If the Tapeta surface was so kind to horses how come [B]Mr. Dickinson's horses make less starts overall than any other trainer's horses on the entire planet?

even more than mr frankel?

[Riot]

It's interesting to click on Sporting Life and see 5 pieces on his retirement...

Thanks for that. Quite a lifetime of achievement.