HOF First Time Nominees...cough, cough

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Won the 1974 NL MVP… Also finished in top 10 in NL MVP voting
in 1976 (T6th), `77 (6th), `78 (2nd) and `80 (6th)…Ranks second
all-time in fielding among first basemen (.9959)… Ten All-Star teams,
including eight consecutively (1974-'81, '84-'85); batted .393 with
seven RBI and two HR in 28 ASG at-bats… Holds ASG record for most
games played at 1B (10)…Named ASG MVP in 1974 and `78… Won four NL
Gold Gloves, consecutively (1974-`77)… Eight seasons with .300-plus
batting average and six seasons with 200-plus hits… 100-plus RBI five
times, 20-plus HR six times, and 30-plus doubles seven times… Led NL
in hits twice (1978, '80)… Holds ML records among 1B for most
consecutive errorless games, season (159), in 1984 (entire season);
most consecutive errorless chances, season (1,319), 1984; and most
consecutive errorless games, career (193), 1983-`85… Holds NL record
for most consecutive errorless chances accepted, 1B, (1,633), 1983-85…
Led NL 1B in games nine times (1975-'81, '84-'85), putouts six times
(1974-'78, '85), fielding average five times (1975-'77, '81, '84),
total chances five times (1974,'75, '77, '78, '85), and DPs once
(1985)… One NL Division Series (1981); batted .368 with four RBI and
two HR in 19 NLDS at-bats… Five NL Championship Series (1974, `77,
`78, `81, `84); hit .356 in 90 NLCS at-bats… Holds career NLCS record
for HR (8) and RBI (21)…Named MVP of NLCS (1978, '84)… Five World
Series (1974, `77, `78, `81, `84); batted .319 with six RBI and five
doubles in 113 WS at-bats… Two errors in 55 post-season games… Member
of 1981 WS championship team.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

We disagree about what should get in the HOF.You like quantity over quality.Hence, the low # of Grade One Wins........Dale Murphy was voted to be the best player in the league...the champion player ..above all others...2 times..If you do that, you should get in automatically.My God lets award some champions.Somebody who was best at something.

You act as though Garvey had his career cut short. He played in 2300 games! He should have amassed better numbers than he did. He was a very good 1st baseman for 5 years, ok for 7, and below average for 4. He did nothing so outstanding that seperated him from other good but not great players. The amusing part of your argument is that he is everything that you accuse me of being biased toward. A guy who played a lot, hung on for a long time, had a decent peak but was pretty middle of the road for the rest of his career.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Don Mattingly has a ranking of 133.5...Garvey a 130.5....This shows just how f'n far off you are.You mention him with Staub n' Buckner.....They mention him between Dawson and Mattingly.You're bitter they came back on you in '81 and beat ya in your own house.Down 2 games to nothing,Fernando beat your Righetti.Came back all the way on you.That's why ya hate Garvey.Look at who you compare him to,and who others compare him to.

I think you would be hard pressed to find any indication that I am a fan of the Yankees.

And what 'others' besides you are carrying the cross for the Garvey for Hall of Fame drive?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Awards
1974-ML-AS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1974-NL-MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1978-ML-AS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1978-NLCS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1981-ML-Roberto Clemente Award
1984-ML-Lou Gehrig Memorial Award
1984-NLCS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"

Let me explain to the dense... They are saying he was the best player in the league in'74.Then they're trying to tell you he was responsible for putting his team in the World Series in 78,and 84.Seems the individual was a lil more clutch a player than one,Chuck S is able to admit.He gives a post season batting %.Others were willing to say he was the most responsible(in both '78 and '84) for his team getting to the world series.

In 1984 Garvey played in 161 games, hit .284 with 8 HR's and 81 RBI's. His OBP and SLG % were .307 and .370 which are weak for a utility middle infielder let alone a supposed HOF 1st baseman.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

HE BEAT THESE HALL OF FAMERS IN '74....I PUT A VALUE OF WINNING THINGS.YOU PUT MORE VALUE ON COLLECTING OVER A LOT OF YEARS.In other words you like a weed,and I prefer flowers.One looks beautiful,and makes people feel good,and the other is just there for a while(hanging out.)You say he isn't good enough,buy he routinely led his team to kick Schmidt's butt in the post.So,he beat Schmidt again.This is my point..Garvey (accused of being so self-centered) shows signs of being the offensive glue for the teams he played for.He wasn't just a part of the puzzle.He usually was playing 162 games,and not slumping.A very consistent offensive weapon when the team needed to win.When they wanted to get to the World Series,he showed up(unlike these future hof members like AROD.)

1 Steve Garvey |
2 Lou Brock |
3 Mike Marshall
4 Johnny Bench |
5 Jimmy Wynn
6 Mike Schmidt|
7 Al Oliver |
B8 Joe Morgan
Richie Zisk |
10 Willie Stargell

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In 1984 Garvey played in 161 games, hit .284 with 8 HR's and 81 RBI's. His OBP and SLG % were .307 and .370 which are weak for a utility middle infielder let alone a supposed HOF 1st baseman.

1974-ML-AS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1974-NL-MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1978-ML-AS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1978-NLCS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1981-ML-Roberto Clemente Award
1984-ML-Lou Gehrig Memorial Award
1984-NLCS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"

The above accomplishments should of got him in.He should of taken Tony Perez' spot.Garvey liked to hump too much(that's why he isn't in...it's not because of what he didn't do on the field.)Before he got caught humping,people voted him to start allstar games 9 times.....Best 1st baseman 9 times in his league,but his accomplishments aren't enough?

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Awards

1984-NLCS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"

[/b]

If there was ever a time to kick someone's a$$. That was the year to do it. LOL!!!

He had a great Cartoon written about him.
"..., and Garvey hits another Home Run to win the game. His family is at home plate waiting for him to score." His 500+ children yell, "Hooray Daddy!"

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

If there was ever a time to kick someone's a$$. That was the year to do it. LOL!!!

He had a great Cartoon written about him.
"..., and Garvey hits another Home Run to win the game. His family is at home plate waiting for him to score." His 500+ children yell, "Hooray Daddy!"

I guess it still counts as a kill(kickin cub butt.)It's recognized.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

HE BEAT THESE HALL OF FAMERS IN '74....I PUT A VALUE OF WINNING THINGS.YOU PUT MORE VALUE ON COLLECTING OVER A LOT OF YEARS.In other words you like a weed,and I prefer flowers.One looks beautiful,and makes people feel good,and the other is just there for a while(hanging out.)You say he isn't good enough,buy he routinely led his team to kick Schmidt's butt in the post.So,he beat Schmidt again.This is my point..Garvey (accused of being so self-centered) shows signs of being the offensive glue for the teams he played for.He wasn't just a part of the puzzle.He usually was playing 162 games,and not slumping.A very consistent offensive weapon when the team needed to win.When they wanted to get to the World Series,he showed up(unlike these future hof members like AROD.)

1 Steve Garvey |
2 Lou Brock |
3 Mike Marshall
4 Johnny Bench |
5 Jimmy Wynn
6 Mike Schmidt|
7 Al Oliver |
B8 Joe Morgan
Richie Zisk |
10 Willie Stargell

I'm sure Dusty Baker, Ron Cey, Davy Lopes, Don Sutton, etc would love to know that Garvey was singlehandedly winning all those games.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

1974-ML-AS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1974-NL-MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1978-ML-AS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1978-NLCS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"
1981-ML-Roberto Clemente Award
1984-ML-Lou Gehrig Memorial Award
1984-NLCS MVP1st at something....notice the word "most"

The above accomplishments should of got him in.He should of taken Tony Perez' spot.Garvey liked to hump too much(that's why he isn't in...it's not because of what he didn't do on the field.)Before he got caught humping,people voted him to start allstar games 9 times.....Best 1st baseman 9 times in his league,but his accomplishments aren't enough?

Not the best 1st baseman just the one lucky enough to play in the 2nd biggest media market in an era where there were very few top 1st baseman.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not the best 1st baseman just the one lucky enough to play in the 2nd biggest media market in an era where there were very few top 1st baseman.

I told you to PLEASE give me names that should've started in front of him in those ALL STAR GAMES.If you disagreed with him starting ,then you should have the alternates you wanted back then.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure Dusty Baker, Ron Cey, Davy Lopes, Don Sutton, etc would love to know that Garvey was singlehandedly winning all those games.

I didn't say singlehandedly,but I grew up with the 70's Dodgers.Sutton was our dominant starter,and the consistent offense was there from Garvey.He didn't take many games off,and he was a reliable offensive leader on this team.Dusty came n' went.Cey was too streaky.Lopes was the good player(not great) that you're trying to make Garvey out to be.Russell was (of course) pretty much puke.Without Garvey,the Dodgers wouldn't have won even division titles in the 70's.I have to say though that he was the Corey Nakatani as far as interviews went(Cliche you into a deep sleep.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Do you know how many times this team needed a pinch hit down the right field line from Mota?(in order to win tie games.) Those were mainly pitching teams. Without Garvey...nah...no way.There is no way they win all those division titles.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I guess it still counts as a kill(kickin cub butt.)It's recognized.

I actually meant - I literally wanted to be in San Diego to kick Garvey's a$$.

[satan's twin]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I was looking this over and it is absolutely terrible. Baseball-reference has a HOF monitor statistic where you are supposed to be over 100 to even be considerd. All of the following are under 100:

•*Robb Nen 92
•*Tim Raines 90
•*Harold Baines 66.5
•*Chuck Knoblauch 66.5
•*Rod Beck 63
•*Chuck Finley 53.5
•*David Justice 43.5
•*Brady Anderson 38
•*Travis Fryman 36
•*Jose Rijo 28
•*Todd Stottlemyre 15
•*Shawon Dunston 14


I'd vote for McGwire, Rice, Lee Smith, and possibly Gossage. No one else should even crack 30%.

David Justice with 43.5 points? Hell, the guy should have been given an additional 50 style points just for his ability to take post-game showers with Halle Berry for four years.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cardus

People in New Yorksaid that Garvey looked like his underwear was starched.

He is not Hall of Fame worthy.

People in New York (I'M SURE) didn't help him in his HOF bid.As you said,people didn't like his personality.Those are 2 of the reasons that a guy with a 130.5 HOF reference ranking(130 is almost a sure HOF inductee) didn't get in.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

People in New York (I'M SURE) didn't help him in his HOF bid.As you said,people didn't like his personality.Those are 2 of the reasons that a guy with a 130.5 HOF reference ranking(130 is almost a sure HOF inductee) didn't get in.

Hall of Fame Monitor
All-Time and Active Leaders

This is another Jamesian creation. It attempts to assess how likely (not how deserving) an active player is to make the Hall of Fame


Of course this little tidbit escaped you when you used the 130 number

[Cannon Shell]

Black-Ink Test
All-Time and Active Leaders

Named so because league leading numbers are traditionally represented with Boldface type. The definition for the test that I'm using here was written up in Bill James's The Politics of Glory, p. 65-67. The essential point is to measure how often a player led the league in a variety of "important" stats. This method penalizes more recent players as they have 14-16 teams per league, while the older players had just 8. To get a point you must lead the league in that category.

Batting Statistics
Four Points for home runs, runs batted in or batting average
Three Points for runs scored, hits or slugging percentage
Two Points for doubles, walks or stolen bases
One Point for games, at bats or triples
Pitching Statistics
Four Points for wins, earned run average or strikeouts
Three Points for innings pitched, win-loss percentage or saves
Two Points for complete games, lowest walks per 9 innings or lowest hits per 9 innings
One Point for appearances, starts or shutouts
Note that Hall of Famers have a wide variety of values for the Black Ink Test, and the method is unforgiving of positional differences, but it is a neat little metric.

Gray-Ink Test
All-Time and Active Leaders

Essentially the same as the Black-Ink above, but it counts appearances in the top ten of the league. For each appearance the values are below. As with the Black Ink, this method penalizes more recent players as they have 14-16 teams per league, while the older players had just 8. To get a point you must be in the top 10 in the league in that category.

Batting Statistics
Four Points for home runs, runs batted in or batting average
Three Points for runs scored, hits or slugging percentage
Two Points for doubles, walks or stolen bases
One Point for games, at bats or triples
Pitching Statistics
Four Points for wins, earned run average or strikeouts
Three Points for innings pitched, win-loss percentage or saves
Two Points for complete games, lowest walks per 9 innings or lowest hits per 9 innings
One Point for appearances, starts or shutouts



Since you wanted to use this group of stats I figured I would show the WHOLE story.

Steve Garvey's Hall Of Fame standards rating is 31, far below the average hall of famers score of 50

Steve Garvey's Grey Ink rating of 142 is slightly less than the average hall of famer's 144

Steve Garveys' Black Ink rating of 12 is far, far below the average hall of famers score of 27

He does not rate out on any of these scales as a Hall of Famer. What other ratings or stats do you want to use?

[Cannon Shell]

The only catagories that Steve Garvey ever led the NL in were hits 2 times, games played 6 times, sac flies 1 time and Grounded into Double Plays 2 times. Sound like a Hall of Famer to you?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The only catagories that Steve Garvey ever led the NL in were hits 2 times, games played 6 times, sac flies 1 time and Grounded into Double Plays 2 times. Sound like a Hall of Famer to you?

Categories? He was the most valuable player(lets be clear....he led all other players in the league in '74.)Evidently it isn't very important to you to be the best player in the league for that year.That is leading.I think it is bogus to accuse him of not leading.He has trophies for leading all other players in the league in '74,in 2 league championship series,and 2 Allstar games.It's easy to say he didn't lead offensive categories.He sprayed line drives everywhere.That would result in a lot of different kinds of hits.That's why he kept getting around 200 or more hits a year.You wanna be picky about the type? He was a consistent line drive hitter that came to play every possible game he could.Had a lot more impact on game outcomes than f'n Carew n' Boggs.Carew did what to lead his team? What ? Bat .220 in 4 league championship series? F that.Damn useless punchin' judy.Garvey had more impact than that moody bitch ever had.Garvey has a league MVP.Does Boggs? No,he was never as valuable as Garvey was to his team.That's another punchin' judy.Non-Pitchers should be the most valuable player in the league atleast once.Pitchers should win a CY YOUNG or atleast have a 20 win season.Beckett,Peavy=in.After that(after the true competitors are rewarded) you can start rewarding your f'n on base %....most doubles by a 2nd baseman from a Texas town..or whatever long -term stat you seem to love.Carew is testament that you don't have to be a winner to get in the Hall.