12/7: Delta Downs (Stakes Quad)

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Superb job by Gus not only using Turf War, but building the ticket... And once again, he and all P4 players that had that clever opinion, are screwed by ridiculous rules that deliver a common quad payoff instead of splitting it proportionately between those that had Z Humor and those that had Turf War.

Steve Crist has written about this repeatedly, and never has it been more clear than in this dead heat finish. The 3-2 favorite and 8th betting choices are inseperable at the wire and no matter which one you had the payoff was $127.60 ($2). Outrageous... The parlay to Bill Mott's winner, off at $1.50-1 was about $60. Those that found Mark Casse's brother of Grasshopper appealing at $39.70-1 were scheduled for a $950.00 P4 reward based on the parlay. And based on the seperately paid P3 prices, it likely was much, much more.

The P3 pools? $31.80 to Z Humor; $402.40 to Turf War. How is it possible that in an era where the computerized pools can track anything, that those that took less risk betting to Turf War in P3's are rewarded three times greater than those that risked, and spent, more betting to Turf War in P4's?

Yet another insult to those that put money through the windows.

I saw that also, and admittedly was quite surprised as I was unaware of the rules. Is this pick 4 rule standard, or does it vary from track to track. It obviously happens relatively infrequently, but as you wrote, it is totally absurd and unfair.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Superb job by Gus not only using Turf War, but building the ticket... And once again, he and all P4 players that had that clever opinion, are screwed by ridiculous rules that deliver a common quad payoff instead of splitting it proportionately between those that had Z Humor and those that had Turf War.

Steve Crist has written about this repeatedly, and never has it been more clear than in this dead heat finish. The 3-2 favorite and 8th betting choices are inseperable at the wire and no matter which one you had the payoff was $127.60 ($2). Outrageous... The parlay to Bill Mott's winner, off at $1.50-1 was about $60. Those that found Mark Casse's brother of Grasshopper appealing at $39.70-1 were scheduled for a $950.00 P4 reward based on the parlay. And based on the seperately paid P3 prices, it likely was much, much more.

The P3 pools? $31.80 to Z Humor; $402.40 to Turf War. How is it possible that in an era where the computerized pools can track anything, that those that took less risk betting to Turf War in P3's are rewarded three times greater than those that risked, and spent, more betting to Turf War in P4's?

Yet another insult to those that put money through the windows.

Feel compelled to write about this in a column. More after I figure out the math.

Well said Steve. As we sit here nearing 2008 for cripes sakes, we can't get two separate payouts with a dead heat in a P4? They have no problem cranking out separate wps, exactas, tris, supers and P3's, but don't bother with the P4. Deplorable.

[bulllea]

This is ridiculous on the Delta P4 payout. Did they show the P4 payoffs before the race was run? Seems like most tracks do.

I have never had this happen before. Do all other tracks and states have the same type payoff structure?

Thanks,
Bulllea

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Superb job by Gus not only using Turf War, but building the ticket... And once again, he and all P4 players that had that clever opinion, are screwed by ridiculous rules that deliver a common quad payoff instead of splitting it proportionately between those that had Z Humor and those that had Turf War.

Steve Crist has written about this repeatedly, and never has it been more clear than in this dead heat finish. The 3-2 favorite and 8th betting choices are inseperable at the wire and no matter which one you had the payoff was $127.60 ($2). Outrageous... The parlay to Bill Mott's winner, off at $1.50-1 was about $60. Those that found Mark Casse's brother of Grasshopper appealing at $39.70-1 were scheduled for a $950.00 P4 reward based on the parlay. And based on the seperately paid P3 prices, it likely was much, much more.

The P3 pools? $31.80 to Z Humor; $402.40 to Turf War. How is it possible that in an era where the computerized pools can track anything, that those that took less risk betting to Turf War in P3's are rewarded three times greater than those that risked, and spent, more betting to Turf War in P4's?

Yet another insult to those that put money through the windows.

Feel compelled to write about this in a column. More after I figure out the math.

Steve, I'm glad you brought this up because I felt like I was robbed last night. I understand the rule, but it is clearly unacceptable and should not be tolerated by horseplayers. With the long look at the photo and then the jockey objection, I was just thinking that if it was a DEAD-HEAT, I'd get the worst case scenerio in the payoffs. I'm not complaining because I was directly effected (kinda), but this matter must be submitted to those that can adjust the PK4 payoffs.

Simply Repulsive - WOW

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Steve, I'm glad you brought this up because I felt like I was robbed last night. I understand the rule, but it is clearly unacceptable and should not be tolerated by horseplayers. With the long look at the photo and then the jockey objection, I was just thinking that if it was a DEAD-HEAT, I'd get the worst case scenerio in the payoffs. I'm not complaining because I was directly effected (kinda), but this matter must be submitted to those that can adjust the PK4 payoffs.

Simply Repulsive - WOW

I feel for ya Gus. No way in hell, that we as horseplayers, who bet our hard earned money should accept this. Two seperate payouts should have been paid. No if's and's or but's about it.

Great job picking Turf War.

[robfla]

I don't understand that in a Pick 3 pool, if there is a dead heat there are two separate payoffs.

While in a Pick 4 pool, the pools are co-mingled.

I have seen this twice fairly recently in two different states -

once yesterday at Delta where a 3:2 deadheated with a 39:1

There were two payouts for Pick 3's :
$2 Pick 3 (8-6-4) 3 Correct Paid $31.80
$2 Pick 3 (8-6-9) 3 Correct Paid $402.40

Yet one Pick 4 payout:
$2 Pick 4 (4-8-6-4/9) 4 Correct Paid $127.60


This also happened at Gulfstream last season with similar odds horses.

Yeah, I had the 9....so I feel like i was a bit robbed, but shouldn't there be separate pools just like in Pick 3's.

I don't play Pick 6's, but thinking about it, don't they co-mingle Pick 6's as well?

[Kasept]

To the questions regarding it's application, the rule is widely utilized... Here's LA and NJ as examples...


LOUISIANA:

Chapter 116. Pick Four
§11615. Dead Heats
EMERGENCY RULE

A. In the event of a dead heat for win between two or more horses in any pick four race, all such horses in the dead heat for win shall be considered as winning horses in the race for the purpose of calculating the pool and payoffs. There shall be a separate payoff price, per dollar calculated, for each winning combination as follows: from the gross pool is deducted the takeout, consolation payoff amounts, if any, and amounts wagered on all winning combinations. The balance shall be divided by the number of different winning combinations upon which bets were sold, each resulting allocated part being assigned to each respective winning combination. An allocated part plus the amounts bet on each winning combination when divided by the amount bet on each winning combination (less breakage) shall be the resulting payoff per dollar per respective winning combination.


NEW JERSEY:

In the event of a dead heat for first in any of the Pick-4/6 races involving contestants representing two or more betting interests, the Pick-4/6 pool shall be distributed as a single price pool with each winning wager receiving an equal share of the Pick-4/6 pool.

[robfla]

did anyone see the probable payout on the 9??


thanks

[dylbert]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Race 7 Key West Breeze opens at 1/9?

Yes, I was at DeD and laughed out loud. $6,200 and change showed on first flip! My wife (racetrack novice) asked what that was all about. My answer, "some fool wants to be separated from his money." And, fool was separated about 20 minutes later.