Gulfstream Sat. Race 1

[SentToStud]

I'm laughing a bit harder now.

I think he's good. And getting better. Is he top 5-Saratoga quality (or however else an "A" rider is so defined)? No, not yet.

I don't know many 23 year old riders who are especially savvy or who do not go through a period of having their inexperience exposed vs a very good group of riders.

He's better than Talamo, better than Rose, better than Mike Baze, better than Garcia.

He is no Norberto Arroyo.

[blackthroatedwind]

You're a loyal person to your surroundings. I respect that. I think it's an admirable quality.

He's an amateur. Maybe he'll get better. It's possible. He will have to begin riding completely differently than he rides now. He might. Right now he's a hinderance to the chances of any horse he rides. I'm sure he gets many very live mounts at Calder. He probably wins with many less than he should. He's bad.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

My personal favorite turf rider is Horatio Karamanos.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're a loyal person to your surroundings. I respect that. I think it's an admirable quality.

He's an amateur. Maybe he'll get better. It's possible. He will have to begin riding completely differently than he rides now. He might. Right now he's a hinderance to the chances of any horse he rides. I'm sure he gets many very live mounts at Calder. He probably wins with many less than he should. He's bad.

No, I'm not loyal... just live here now.

He hasn't ridden Calder full-time for two years. Just late Nov/Dec like a lot of the better ones.

Don't be fooled by a few weeks of this meet. Check his numbers for '07 including Monmouth, Belmont fall and how he finished '07 in $$ won.

Very good young rider on his way up.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

No, I'm not loyal... just live here now.

He hasn't ridden Calder full-time for two years. Just late Nov/Dec like a lot of the better ones.

Don't be fooled by a few weeks of this meet. Check his numbers for '07 including Monmouth, Belmont fall and how he finished '07 in $$ won.

Very good young rider on his way up.

We'll have to agree to disagree on him. What I've seen from him has been reckless impatience and a lot of premature and wide moves.

But, like you said, he's young. So even in disagreeing with you about his riding I can certainly agree that he has time to improve. I also admit that I'm hypercritical of riders.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I also admit that I'm hypercritical of riders.

I don't think this is true. Anyone who watches races closely over a period of time, be it someone who has ridden, trained or otherwise, realizes what works and what doesn't work. Not only in terms of winning races and strategy but also in terms of abuse to the horse, and, flat out common sense. And, as the subtleties of the race riding part of the game reveal themselves, the small margin between winning and losing becomes apparent.

And it gets annoying, to say the least, when jockeys not only screw up repeatedly on the 'little' things but continually make glaring errors.

The game itself is incredibly behind the times. Other sports have coaches and support staffs that spend countless hours watching tape and planning strategy. Racing has a (more often than not clueless ---I write this confidently as these guys continue riding back jocks that blow races, costing them money) trainer giving instructions to an even more clueless jockey, while the jockey agent does everything BUT watch tape and offer advice as to how to improve. How can this model ever be successful or anything but frustrating?

I'm at the point these days where I just pass races in which I like a horse being ridden by a screwup jock, and, sure enough, the jock screws up. It's that obvious.

[blackthroatedwind]

I agree with a lot of that.

I am amazed at how little trainers seem to get it and often ride back riders who have screwed them over and over again. There's nothing like watching a trainer and rider walking back after a race and laughing....just moments after the rider has screwed him and his entire staff out of a much better performance from the horse. I see it all the time.

Many of these riders seem to have no game plan or awareness of the racetrack. They simply go where the horse takes them. This is why Dominguez can dominate the winter meet. Sure he gets choice mounts much of the time but he also rides intelligently for the most part....while his competition has their head up their collective ass.

As far as jockey agents helping riders....well, assuming they even understood, which is debateable, the riders for the most part would never listen to them. That's just another reason they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. They have the " have you ever ridden a horse " attitude to the extreme and for the most part are loathe to listen to anything anyone tells them.

The riding colonies are often so poor these days that competence is confused for excellence.