A true stiffing

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pick4

Falling in love with a low level claiming horse is probably not wise, There was a reason this horse was running at 16. These are not the most reliable runners and the form cycles can swing on the dime. It's best to fugettaboudit and move on.

No,I know what happened,and I know the horse must be ridden properly or the result will be poor.You're right about one thing.It does no good to talk about it.She made a decision and I have got to live with the results.The only thing keeping him from winning today was she got him in a duel.He will run much better when rated next time.Unfortunately,people bet differently from the way they talk,and he will be bet.Whether people admit it or not,they know he will have a better shot rated next time. It's not like he will have odds........Did you say reliable? How about the Mitchell he raved about all last week,and it did zero-nothing.

[tiggerv]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No,I know what happened,and I know the horse must be ridden properly or the result will be poor.You're right about one thing.It does no good to talk about it.She made a decision and I have got to live with the results.The only thing keeping him from winning today was she got him in a duel.He will run much better when rated next time.Unfortunately,people bet differently from the way they talk,and he will be bet.Whether people admit it or not,they know he will have a better shot rated next time. It's not like he will have odds........Did you say reliable? How about the Mitchell he raved about all last week,and it did zero-nothing.

Pace in that race was quite a bit different than I expected. I had Indian Weaver who I thought would get a nice stalking trip behind Gomez's horse but Saul took him towards the back and then of course let Rosario get the jump on him.

As far as the supposed stiff job, I won't argue that Talamo gave a good ride because he didn't. He was clumsy with the reins and whip down the stretch and didn't seem to care much about saving ground. Keeping her straight seemed like a big effort for him. However a proven hanger who doesn't like to win got a wide trip and couldn't pass a front runner who got no pace pressure and an easy ground saving trip. Not at all unusual. Was Le Cirque the better horse today? Maybe but this horse doesn't like to win. Would Bejarano, Gomez or Flores won on that horse today? Probably. Perhaps we are just talking semantics but I wouldn't call it a stiff job or anything suspension worthy just because he didn't go all chop-chop on her and got nosed out.

Talamo's luster wore off months ago with his bad ride on Nashoba's Key in the Breeders Cup keeping her in the slop on the rail and then getting a big head and firing his agent because he was jealous of Tyler's mounts. He hasn't been the same since. Very surprised he didn't got to Fairgrounds this winter.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

is this the p.a.board?

[Immanuel Kant]

Talamo's luster wore off months ago with his bad ride on Nashoba's Key in the Breeders Cup keeping her in the slop on the rail and then getting a big head and firing his agent because he was jealous of Tyler's mounts. He hasn't been the same since. Very surprised he didn't got to Fairgrounds this winter.


Congratulations ! You are the winner! Tell him what he's won Johnny!
I'd be very surprised if Joe wasn't in New Orleans next Thanksgiving.

[2Hot4TV]

What!

we are bashing JOE TALAMO?

I said he wasn't that good back in November and this board jumped on me like buzzards on a road kill in Texas.

He's young and if he keeps his agent, he will do fine if he can learn anything from the other jockeys.

He still isn't that good right now.

[NTamm1215]

The biggest shame is that Talamo is still getting blamed for a ground saving ride in the Breeders' Cup over a mythical bogged down rail. Was that not the same rail that Kip Deville sat on the entire way until he was tipped out down the stretch?

NT

[The Bid]

It needs to be addressed. I watched the ride 200 times and it gets worse each time.

[docicu3]

The good news is that the jock is very very young and hopefully will take the lesson of having far less success these last six months as an opportunity to remediate his skills, his character and his willingness to be humble and teachable regarding things he is yet to learn about making split second decisions on the oval

In all candor I root for the kid and hope he can develop his skills to the level he needs to make a living in So Cal

[Scav]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

What!

we are bashing JOE TALAMO?

I said he wasn't that good back in November and this board jumped on me like buzzards on a road kill in Texas.

He's young and if he keeps his agent, he will do fine if he can learn anything from the other jockeys.

He still isn't that good right now.

His downfall started when he got into a pissing match with Ebanks because Ebanks wanted both Tyler Baze and Talamo. And this is when Tyler was getting hot again. Jealously is a bitch. I think it is Ebanks, but it might be Ron Anderson...

It also didn't help that Bejarano made the move there because he essentially took ALL of his mounts (Walsh and Frankel most notable)

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by The Bid

It needs to be addressed. I watched the ride 200 times and it gets worse each time.

You have spent about 7 hours watching the replay of a 5 to 2 shot getting nosed?

[The Bid]

Maybe not 200 but at least 40 times. Ive watched it more times than I should have

[PSH]

The biggest question i have is why anyone would want to go to the lead on that surface at SA????

It seems that 90% of the time or more that speed doesn't hold. I can understand that if you are on a horse that is speed and can't be controlled that maybe you have no choice. That said, why would Chantal even consider to have the horse in yesterday's 6th on the lead????? Makes no sense to me.

If the jocks all understand that you can't be on the lead on the synthetic what happens? Do they draw straws to see who will be on the lead every race? I assume not. Someone always goes to the lead when in theory they should be stalking or sitting in the back on a closer for that one run. NOthing is more frustrating then placing a wager on a horse at SA and seeing the jock rush up to the lead when the PPs show that they don't need to do that.

PSH

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

he can still go back to church and fg and smoke robbie a all day.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

he can still go back to church and fg and smoke robbie a all day.

that wouldn't take much.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by PSH

The biggest question i have is why anyone would want to go to the lead on that surface at SA????

It seems that 90% of the time or more that speed doesn't hold. I can understand that if you are on a horse that is speed and can't be controlled that maybe you have no choice. That said, why would Chantal even consider to have the horse in yesterday's 6th on the lead????? Makes no sense to me.

If the jocks all understand that you can't be on the lead on the synthetic what happens? Do they draw straws to see who will be on the lead every race? I assume not. Someone always goes to the lead when in theory they should be stalking or sitting in the back on a closer for that one run. NOthing is more frustrating then placing a wager on a horse at SA and seeing the jock rush up to the lead when the PPs show that they don't need to do that.

PSH

Yea,I don't understand why she did it.I was worried about having the one hole again,and thought I would probably lose to somebody with a better post.My guess is this was on her mind(a possible bad trip,) and she had room and horse to get decent stalking position.I just wish she would of rated a length off(ala Prado,) because that is a way he has won.He has won from just off,and from deep.He even has won when getting a clear lead.Yesterday was the 3rd time he has failed miserably when dueling on the lead.To me,the track still favors the style of the winners of the 6th,and 8th races.She won on the lead in the 4th race(a turf race marathon.) She then saw Garcia survive on the lead in the 5th race dirt sprint.That was a horrible group in the 5th race,though.Also,Garcia is a world class gate to wire speed jock.With Valenzuela gone (maybe forever,) this is probably the best jockey out here for stealing sprints gate to wire.If you have a pressured pace on that track,I still think you're at a big disadvantage right now......Anyways,my horse could easily have beaten that 5 horse from off the pace,and that's why it frustrates me so much that she didn't rate him.I had a feeling the droppers were all horses off form that trainers were trying to drop to get wins by default,and this circuit isn't gunna work that way.If you want to win,then you better have some form.So,I thought the droppers wouldn't win.I thought I had to beat the WEAVER,THE 2 horse,and the 5 horse.That turned out to be very possible,but she simply didn't rate the horse.It is infuriating,because I singled the winner of the 7th(with YCHASE DE CAT in the 6th,and had all in the last.) The only way to look at it positively is to remember she could of had a troubled trip 2nd(if rated.)Also,if a bomb won the last it could have paid 2-3k (instead of $800 for the p3.) I guess I was lucky to win the 7th with Smith's horse getting up.So,was lucky in one leg,and unlucky in the previous leg.Also,I failed to cap the last correctly.I could easily had the 6 horse and cashed with the back up all/10 /two horses in last leg - ticket.So,I see it as me blowing the last,and her blowing the 6th.Shouldn't have used the 8 horse in the last.Horses breaking their maiden going sprints,are not great plays stretching out against winners who have stretched out already.The winner of the last seemed to me like he had some bad habits in the stretch,and I thought he had every chance to get up with GOMEZ up last time.Gomez moved.I knew the weight break might help.I thought he had a shot.That's where I lost.I had a chance to overcome Chantal's decision,and win a p3,but used the wrong 2 horses in the last leg of the cover ticket. It's little like making a par in pro golf.They can make one bad shot,but the other shots on the hole have to be good ones,or they bogey.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Scav

His downfall started when he got into a pissing match with Ebanks because Ebanks wanted both Tyler Baze and Talamo. And this is when Tyler was getting hot again. Jealously is a bitch. I think it is Ebanks, but it might be Ron Anderson...

It also didn't help that Bejarano made the move there because he essentially took ALL of his mounts (Walsh and Frankel most notable)

If Joe hangs in there, stays the likeable kid he is and learns from the wealth of good riders around him he will go to the TOP with the agent he has now.
His agent is a Super agent with the right rider and Alex Solis isn't that rider anymore. Joe can slip right in.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Actually,I haven't liked the horses Talamo has been getting.I know he needs to win with marginal horses in order to get better mounts,but horses like Le Cirque are the types he often gets.That(LE CIRQUE) is a despicable individual to have to try to get up with,but he does need to start getting horses like that up.

[ArlJim78]

scuds, the horse you're obsessing on from the SA sixth yesterday was probably not going to win that race, REGARDLESS of the riding tactics.
To me that horse was clearly not quite up to the level of several of the others. Maybe coming from off the pace the horse would have been closer, but a winner? imo no way.

I'm not saying it wasn't a decent shot to take at the price, but you act once again as if the ride alone is to blame for your loss. In all honestly I feel that you should just take most of the blame yourself for making the wrong play. Its okay to say that because everyone is wrong about something in this game the majority of the time.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

scuds, the horse you're obsessing on from the SA sixth yesterday was probably not going to win that race, REGARDLESS of the riding tactics.
To me that horse was clearly not quite up to the level of several of the others. Maybe coming from off the pace the horse would have been closer, but a winner? imo no way.

I'm not saying it wasn't a decent shot to take at the price, but you act once again as if the ride alone is to blame for your loss. In all honestly I feel that you should just take most of the blame yourself for making the wrong play. Its okay to say that because everyone is wrong about something in this game the majority of the time.

I ignore your stuff almost always.It's all the same type stuff.It's the contrarian high school teacher type stuff.Just like this time.I read it,but just ignore it,because I know the guy who wrote it is simply out to disagree with other players.Same as before,watch the horse's next race.Nobody knows for sure what would of happened if he got a rate or stalk trip.It's a bad post.I already said he may have lost with a troubled trip.I don't play crap for singles.Look at the next leg single.He scored at 10-1.They (the singles) usually are very live.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I ignore your stuff almost always.It's all the same type stuff.It's the contrarian high school teacher type stuff.Just like this time.I read it,but just ignore it,because I know the guy who wrote it is simply out to disagree with other players.Same as before,watch the horse's next race.Nobody knows for sure what would of happened if he got a rate or stalk trip.It's a bad post.I already said he may have lost with a troubled trip.I don't play crap for singles.Look at the next leg single.He scored at 10-1.They (the singles) usually are very live.

well at least you have an open mind.
since when is disagreeing with other players not part of this game?

my posts are all the same type of stuff? umm, you might want to look in the mirror fellow. your rants on conspiracies, bad rides, and cheating trainers are so tiresome and predictably lame.

contrarian high school teacher stuff? whatever. the very act of trying to find value is a contrarian type of thinking.