What about Steppingwolfer

Originally Posted by Togacapper

I had a vey good undercard at Churchill due to those figs on Derby Day.

Exactly...they were pretty on-key that day, and actually, if you boxed the 4 fastest horses by the Rag numbers coming into the Derby, you would have hit the $800 EX with Barbaro and Bluegrass Cat (all you had to do is throw out the Blue Grass Stakes, which everyone knows KEE form doesn't hold up at CD)....

..I can't find my Derby day Rags at the moment, but I believe BARBARO looked to fire a 3-5 (he obviously fired much lower than that range in a breakout effort), BLUEGRASS CAT looked to fire a 3-5, SWEETNORTHERSAINT looked to fire a 1-4 (and he was my main play because he had clearly run faster than the rest coming in), and Brother Derek looked to run a 2-4.....all else were clearly second best...this formula produced the EX and the top 3-of-4 finishers in the race, with Sweetnorthernsaint and Brother Derek obviously encountering a lot of traffic.

...I made a small fortune that day and the Rags were a huge part of the reason.....to me, it is easily the most accurate speed figure on par, and I would suggest everyone take the opportunity to learn the system...I think you'll see your handicapping improve..(and no, I'm not getting paid by Ragozin).

..the one thing that sucks about them is that they are over-priced...freaking $40/day!!!

[whorstman]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Exactly...they were pretty on-key that day, and actually, if you boxed the 4 fastest horses by the Rag numbers coming into the Derby, you would have hit the $800 EX with Barbaro and Bluegrass Cat (all you had to do is throw out the Blue Grass Stakes, which everyone knows KEE form doesn't hold up at CD)....

..I can't find my Derby day Rags at the moment, but I believe BARBARO looked to fire a 3-5 (he obviously fired much lower than that range in a breakout effort), BLUEGRASS CAT looked to fire a 3-5, SWEETNORTHERSAINT looked to fire a 1-4 (and he was my main play because he had clearly run faster than the rest coming in), and Brother Derek looked to run a 2-4.....all else were clearly second best...this formula produced the EX and the top 3-of-4 finishers in the race, with Sweetnorthernsaint and Brother Derek obviously encountering a lot of traffic.

...I made a small fortune that day and the Rags were a huge part of the reason.....to me, it is easily the most accurate speed figure on par, and I would suggest everyone take the opportunity to learn the system...I think you'll see your handicapping improve..(and no, I'm not getting paid by Ragozin).

..the one thing that sucks about them is that they are over-priced...freaking $40/day!!!

Where do you get those?

Originally Posted by Secretariat

how can you believe in Jazil but not Bob and John, they have almost identical pedigree, and BanJo defeated jazil on this track in the wood. Steppenwolfer will like this race, he has chased Lawyer ron all spring, gaining in the 9th furlong and in the derby showed that 10f is okay as well. he will continue to plod on after many have stopped.
right now Jazil, And Steppenwolfer are my top 2 picks.
who can forget jazil closing in the wood in the slop on this track, who can forget him closing in the KD at 10f.
is something changed now ??
he will be kicking down this stretch AGAIN, nothing has changed,
except this time there will be enough runway to catch BanJo.

I just disagree...Bob and John has never beaten good horses...his Sham win was against weak company and everytime he stepped up to face the best on the West Coast he got his head handed to him....His Wood win was AWFUL IMO...he had difficulty putting away a sprinter in Keyed Entry, and the two CRAWLED home in around 40 seconds for the final 3/8s...Jazil finished great and actually made up around 18-lengths, finishing the final 3/8s in 36 and change..I bet Jazil thta day and was pissed when he couldn't get up....I do believe Jazil is a better closer than Steppenwolfer (IMO) and has a better shot at having success in the Belmont...I am just not convinced he can kick down the likes of BLUEGRASS CAT, SUNRIVER and DEPUTY GLITTERS when he figures to be 10-lengths out of it coming into the far turn...just my opinion...

I have never thought Bob and John was of the best in this class...I think he'll be a better 4-year-old...he has a clumsy way of going and doesn't appear to lay his belly down everytime he runs and has lacked the fired to run with the best horses when the real running comenced in the stretch....not my kind of horse at all...I'll take my chances playing against him...it has worked well to this point.

Go back and review his lifetime pps and look at what happened to him everytime he stepped up to face good 3-year-olds out there on the West coast..

Originally Posted by whorstman

Where do you get those?

At http://www.thesheets.com/ .....then click on buy sheet online...they are ridiculously expensive, but well worth it when you understand how to read them, especially if you're a heavy player...go on the site and read about them...

By the way, I just noticed that they adjusted SUNRIVER's Beyer speed figure in the Peter Pan from a 100 to a 102....he actually fits well in the Belmont with that fig, but I still believe his stablemate Bluegrass Cat is much faster...I'll use Sunriver a little in my tickets....Bluegrass Cat should be the fave around 5-2 IMO and Sunriver should be probably the second choice at around 7/2 -to- 9/2...so I look for Pletcher to be one-two in the wagering...Steppenwolfer, Bob and John & Jazil will be next at around the range of 9/2 -to- 8/1 --- and in my opinion the overlay will be Deputy Glitters at around 12-1 or maybe higher, which DOESN'T MEAN I THINK HE'LL WIN...just mean that he will be the Overlay..

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

By the way, I just noticed that they adjusted SUNRIVER's Beyer speed figure in the Peter Pan from a 100 to a 102....he actually fits well in the Belmont with that fig, but I still believe his stablemate Bluegrass Cat is much faster...I'll use Sunriver a little in my tickets....Bluegrass Cat should be the fave around 5-2 IMO and Sunriver should be probably the second choice at around 7/2 -to- 9/2...so I look for Pletcher to be one-two in the wagering...Steppenwolfer, Bob and John & Jazil will be next at around the range of 9/2 -to- 8/1 --- and in my opinion the overlay will be Deputy Glitters at around 12-1 or maybe higher, which DOESN'T MEAN I THINK HE'LL WIN...just mean that he will be the Overlay..

Steppenwolfers TG numbers are consistent as hell. Belmont is actually his home track. Hes a solid horse who always fires a shot, although usually a little short. Hes a lock to hit the board and like on Derby Day($$$$$$$) I will be keying him in tris in all three spots, heavier in the place and show holes.

[BrianJ]

There's an article on DRF saying that Steppenwolfer had a nice workout of 1:10 and change galloping out in 1:37. Maybe he'll show some speed. He definitely has the stamina to get the job done (Aptitude breeding). His 3rd in the Derby was respectable.

[Cajungator26]

I can't remember if this was posted on here or not, so if it was, please disregard.

Steppenwolfer works for Belmont
By DAVID GRENING
Steppenwolfer, the third-place finisher in the Kentucky Derby, zipped through six furlongs in 1:10.36 Friday morning over the Belmont Park training track in preparation for the $1 million Belmont Stakes on June 10.
Jockey Heberto Castillo Jr. was aboard for the work, which Belmont clockers timed in fractions of 12.16 seconds, 24.00, 35.65, and 47.06. Steppenwolfer galloped out seven furlongs in 1:23.73 and continued out a mile in 1:37.62.

Castillo wasn't pushing on the horse, and the horse was not blowing back at the barn.

"He did it in a way that left my mouth open," Castillo said.

The work was done over a wet track labeled good. Trainer Danny Peitz moved the work up one day because of a forecast that called for several inches of rain in New York Friday night into Saturday.

Asked if Steppenwolfer had worked as fast as that before, Peitz said, "Maybe when we bought him. It's taken me this long to get him back to where he was in the April [2005] sale."

[Togacapper]

Joel, what did you think of steppenwolfers work this morning ?

I heard Steppenwolfer is really taking a liking to Big Sandy.

[Togacapper]

He loves it there. Pietz has a barn @ belmont, so I guess you would say that's his home.

Originally Posted by Togacapper

He loves it there. Pietz has a barn @ belmont, so I guess you would say that's his home.

Its where he has spent the majority of his career. Its where he trained last summer and fall. has been back since after the Derby. hes a nice horse. Obvously the lack of speed that he has has hurt him, but hes no hanger. I saw him battle hard twice to win races narrowly that he easily could have lost.
he was my key underneath in the Derby and instantly became one of my favorite horses of all time. That was the biggest trifecta that i have ever hit.
He likes the surface and his sheet numbers are solid as a rock. Hes my best in the race to hit the hoard.

[Scurlogue Champ]

I wish whoever started this thread would change the title and spell the horse's goddamn name correctly.

It is killing me for sure.

[Togacapper]

yaeh yaeh I tried. My bad...

[Scurlogue Champ]

haha, I appreciate it toga. no worries

[Togacapper]

I would really like to see a different rider though. I think Albarado's first instinct with this horse is to take back. With the work this morning I hope Dan gives instructions to let him lay closer to the pace.

[Scurlogue Champ]

I wish they would put Bejarano on him.

[Togacapper]

Yeah he might be a better fit, he's riding damn good.

For a dead closer to work 1:10 and change is amazing, and on top of that..the track was not that fast this morning judging by other works...WOW..

My view on this is that I will now use Steppenwolfer more in my EXs and TRIs, but a part of me wonders what it may take out of him because I am still not a huge believer in the horse....I still think Bluegrass Cat is a more talented animal and deserves the best look, and Deputy Glitters is a live longshot...but none-the-less, that is an impressive move by Steppenwolfer - believe me...WOW!

[Togacapper]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

For a dead closer to work 1:10 and change is amazing, and on top of that..the track was not that fast this morning judging by other works...WOW..

My view on this is that I will now use Steppenwolfer more in my EXs and TRIs, but a part of me wonders what it may take out of him because I am still not a huge believer in the horse....I still think Bluegrass Cat is a more talented animal and deserves the best look, and Deputy Glitters is a live longshot...but none-the-less, that is an impressive move by Steppenwolfer - believe me...WOW!

I do agree with you on bluegrass cat, but I am a little doughtfull on DG as I see him fading, I will use hime though because I know you know what the hell yer talking about. Does it change the way Albarado rides Steppen though. Also did you handicap churchill as a wet track tomorrow or is it expected to dry out.