Zarkava

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Horses are not bikes.
Some like to be covered up, some cant stand
it. And for God sake they are running. Again what
happens on a bike when you stop pedaling? What
happens when you stop running?

You guys who know horses let this guy get away
with this bogus analogy... unfrikkn believable.
Sit a trip. Sit a trip. Guess what happens when
when a horse tries to steal a race. Honestly.
Has the fatman actually ever run in a race on
a track. The comparison of human running would be much
better than a human riding a godforsaken bike.

Was a good race to watch.

Getting cover in a turf race is usually the best thing for a horse. You rarely see a turfer "steal" races on a regular basis, and if they do they are the exception (Sunline)

[_ed_]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Sunline

But yeah, hugely impressive win by Zarkava. What a horse.

[ateamstupid]

That pan shot gives me motion sickness. Quite the turn of foot on that filly though.

[Pedigree Ann]

THere was another prep for the Arc (fancy calling a classic like the Vermeille a prep) on Sunday, aside from the ones for the 3yos. This was the Prix Foy for older horses, the one that Curlin was supposed to run in if he ran well on turf. It was won by Zambezi Sun, who was the top French 3yo last year and a fancied Arc runner before he went off form. Rested all summer, came back to win by a half-length, isn't pointing toward the Arc. Perhaps more intriguing was the second finisher, the German champion Schiaparelli, who has been sold to Godolphin. This was his first run for quite a long time and he acquitted himself well; he should be tighter for the Arc, often run in ground softer than yesterday's 'bon' turf, which (as I have said) German-breds tend to handle better than many.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

THere was another prep for the Arc (fancy calling a classic like the Vermeille a prep) on Sunday, aside from the ones for the 3yos. This was the Prix Foy for older horses, the one that Curlin was supposed to run in if he ran well on turf. It was won by Zambezi Sun, who was the top French 3yo last year and a fancied Arc runner before he went off form. Rested all summer, came back to win by a half-length, isn't pointing toward the Arc. Perhaps more intriguing was the second finisher, the German champion Schiaparelli, who has been sold to Godolphin. This was his first run for quite a long time and he acquitted himself well; he should be tighter for the Arc, often run in ground softer than yesterday's 'bon' turf, which (as I have said) German-breds tend to handle better than many.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to take a look at the times for the three supposed Arc preps run yesterday.

I understand that the final time isn't everything, and certainly we don't know the respective paces, but the differences are substantial.

[brockguy]

She is a brilliant filly, no doubt about it, but making her 2-1 favourite without facing a colt is pushing it...

It will probably be a big field for the Arc this year with a fair few Coolmore pacemakers trying to set it up for Soldier of Fortune and I don't believe she will be able to lie 15L back and win like she just did against the very best in Europe, unless she really is that good. My guess is that Soumillion will overdo the waiting tactics and get her beaten..

Reganding the US, Ideal World will most likely be over there next year and looks to have a really bright future..

The times are usually meaningless in France and moreso yesterday as the Vermeille was the only one with a pacemaker and the other 2 races had a horse on the front that actually wanted to win the race..

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Maybe this belongs in the international section, but do yourself a favor and go to Youtube and watch this sensational 3YO filly's win in today's Prix Vermille.

She honestly may be the best horse in the world.

PRIX VERMEILLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsgdXISrmRM

better the Big Brown? Please

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by freddymo

better the Big Brown? Please

Haha. She's better

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Getting cover in a turf race is usually the best thing for a horse. You rarely see a turfer "steal" races on a regular basis, and if they do they are the exception (Sunline)

In these turf races, your strategy depends on the competition.
If a jock finds out he is on a grinder based on his competition,
he better ride the horse to do what fits that race.

A jock cannot sit back with a bunch of horses that have great kicks
and just let them outkick you because of superior closing speed. These sitters
must be pushed. It happens all the time in running. (without bikes)

Anytime you run against a horse with superior closing speed, the only way
to take the starch out of the kick is to push them throughout. And if they dont push, you got to try to pull a grinding steal. Put enough distance so they cant catch you. If they are just too damn good, then tough luck. But to sit back relaxing with horses that have big kicks when you dont... waiting to lose gives you no chance.

And the fact that races do on occasion get stolen by frontrunners keeps
the talented closers honest. Fatman refers to biking, I say look at this year's
womans marathon. The winner put superior runners away because they thought she would come back to the pack. They took it too easy. She was there to push. And no one challenged. She was not the best runner.

Getting covered up also means a horse might have to run at a pace that is not most efficient given that horses particular stride. It is not a good thing at all in some cases. It can be stressful. Its not like coasting on a bike, you still have to run. And having to change pace because a horse in front of you hits a bit of trouble can be debilitating by the end of the race.

My take from running, not biking.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by pgardn

In these turf races, your strategy depends on the competition.
If a jock finds out he is on a grinder based on his competition,
he better ride the horse to do what fits that race.

A jock cannot sit back with a bunch of horses that have great kicks
and just let them outkick you because of superior closing speed. These sitters
must be pushed. It happens all the time in running. (without bikes)

Anytime you run against a horse with superior closing speed, the only way
to take the starch out of the kick is to push them throughout. And if they dont push, you got to try to pull a grinding steal. Put enough distance so they cant catch you. If they are just too damn good, then tough luck. But to sit back relaxing with horses that have big kicks when you dont... waiting to lose gives you no chance.

And the fact that races do on occasion get stolen by frontrunners keeps
the talented closers honest. Fatman refers to biking, I say look at this year's
womans marathon. The winner put superior runners away because they thought she would come back to the pack. They took it too easy. She was there to push. And no one challenged. She was not the best runner.

Getting covered up also means a horse might have to run at a pace that is not most efficient given that horses particular stride. It is not a good thing at all in some cases. It can be stressful. Its not like coasting on a bike, you still have to run. And having to change pace because a horse in front of you hits a bit of trouble can be debilitating by the end of the race.

My take from running, not biking.

Your take from running has nothing to do with a horse race. Unless you are in a paceless situation or have a definite free running horse, you want a horse to get cover and outsprint the rest when the hole opens. If there is no hole, you're ****ed.

This is regarding truly run turf races, not the weird type we run over here.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

This is regarding truly run turf races, not the weird type we run over here.

These contrary-to-physics races are the result of DIRT racing (the kickback) and the many bush and biased tracks on which it's practiced. Gunning for the lead, moving prematurely, going without cover, having an advantage as a frontrunner, are all tactics that spell CERTAIN DOOM in any other sport (at a reasonably high speed). Try any of these at your local velodrome and see how quickly you're puking up your breakfast. Here, they're the norm.

As I've mentioned countless times before: the way these jock ride these races borders on ABUSE of the horses. Why would they care, however, as it doesn't cost them any pain; not like they in a bike race and they make a premature break and are made to pay for it.

Compounding matters is that most trainers/owners are clueless to it as well and thus the status quo is guaranteed to have a long life.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

These contrary-to-physics races are the result of DIRT racing (the kickback) and the many bush and biased tracks on which it's practiced. Gunning for the lead, moving prematurely, going without cover, having an advantage as a frontrunner, are all tactics that spell CERTAIN DOOM in any other sport (at a reasonably high speed). Try any of these at your local velodrome and see how quickly you're puking up your breakfast. Here, they're the norm.

As I've mentioned countless times before: the way these jock ride these races borders on ABUSE of the horses. Why would they care, however, as it doesn't cost them any pain; not like they in a bike race and they make a premature break and are made to pay for it.

Compounding matters is that most trainers/owners are clueless to it as well and thus the status quo is guaranteed to have a long life.

Agreed

[CSC]

I'm going to take abit of a contrarian view here regarding Zarkava. After watching her race again

1. Yes it was a very good effort and performance, only a crazy person would disagree.

However with her running style and the race being at 1 1/2 coupled with a strong pace setter, I think the stumble at the start was not as bad as widely reported in affecting her performance.

Once again very good performance, yes...But great? I'm not so sure. I will agree she is a very smart performer that may be headed for greatness, but she won't be my Arc horse.

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Your take from running has nothing to do with a horse race.

But biking does?
Excellent.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

These contrary-to-physics races are the result of DIRT racing (the kickback) and the many bush and biased tracks on which it's practiced. Gunning for the lead, moving prematurely, going without cover, having an advantage as a frontrunner, are all tactics that spell CERTAIN DOOM in any other sport (at a reasonably high speed). Try any of these at your local velodrome and see how quickly you're puking up your breakfast. Here, they're the norm.

As I've mentioned countless times before: the way these jock ride these races borders on ABUSE of the horses. Why would they care, however, as it doesn't cost them any pain; not like they in a bike race and they make a premature break and are made to pay for it.

Compounding matters is that most trainers/owners are clueless to it as well and thus the status quo is guaranteed to have a long life.

Sorry to interrupt this serious horse thread, but I would think this is the first time that the word "velodrome" has ever been used in a post...perhaps anywhere...

now..back to the Smart Thread

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by pgardn

But biking does?
Excellent.

These contrary-to-physics races are the result of DIRT racing (the kickback) and the many bush and biased tracks on which it's practiced. Gunning for the lead, moving prematurely, going without cover, having an advantage as a frontrunner, are all tactics that spell CERTAIN DOOM in any other sport

this would be what I agreed with

[odbaxter]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

These contrary-to-physics races are the result of DIRT racing (the kickback) and the many bush and biased tracks on which it's practiced. Gunning for the lead, moving prematurely, going without cover, having an advantage as a frontrunner, are all tactics that spell CERTAIN DOOM in any other sport (at a reasonably high speed). Try any of these at your local velodrome and see how quickly you're puking up your breakfast. Here, they're the norm.

As I've mentioned countless times before: the way these jock ride these races borders on ABUSE of the horses. Why would they care, however, as it doesn't cost them any pain; not like they in a bike race and they make a premature break and are made to pay for it.

Compounding matters is that most trainers/owners are clueless to it as well and thus the status quo is guaranteed to have a long life.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The races around the globe are all run with diffrent styles and reflect the jockeys and trainers belief as the best way TO WIN.
If you can go 12F in 2:26 why would sit and stalk a daudling field only to sprint to the wire and win in 2:28 or 2:32.

[King Glorious]

Again, I must say that I'm glad she's not trained in America or by John Shirreffs. She would have surely gone in the Opera today if he had her. Top horses do special things that others can't. That's why they are top horses. Shots at historical things don't come around every year. That's why you've got to take them when they come. You've got to love the owner/trainer of Zarkava. We keep hearing excuse after sorry excuse about how Zenyatta is so lightly raced and there's no need to push her, etc. Well, this filly is also lightly race and there was no need to push her to win the world's best race. But they did and they were rewarded. I hope the Zenyatta people were watching that and can take a shot of balls and do the same with Zenyatta. If Curlin does run in the BC and Zenyatta races against and beats him and Big Brown, I think that she, not Zarkava would go down as the best female runner in the world.

I don't know if the competition she's facing is really that great but Zarkava just put her name on the list of top Euro females. She's a special horse.

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She honestly may be the best horse in the world.

Good call BTW

[blackthroatedwind]

Thanks. It was my first winner ( other than begging them to turn Tale of Ekati back ).