Turf Sprint Project -- 'Turnback' debate

[GPK]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Maybe it's because they go so slow in some of the turf routes. They only run hard the last part. Seems like in the main track races they are actually working for most of the race. Does the turnback angle work better if they are going from dirt route to turf sprint?

I actually like the opposite, going from turf route to dirt sprint.

[joeydb]

I think the jockey angle on this issue is a good thing to ask Tony Black about.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I think the jockey angle on this issue is a good thing to ask Tony Black about.

Joey.. I'll bring it up with Tony this week. He's certainly ridden in a bunch considering his Mid-Atlantic career base where they've run them as a major portion of their cards for a long time...

[Kasept]

Am going to start a Turf Sprint Handicapping thread (or series). Will pick Turf Sprints where PP's are available. Less of a contest and more of an ongoing discussion opportunity.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27625

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

you're covering lots of ground when you talk about 5-7 furlong turf sprints.
i have found ways to play the shorter end of the range (5-5.5F) with very good success, but 6-7F is a different animal and plays a little differently if you ask me.

i could see where a cutback angle would not work so well on the shorter sprints, but might be more relevant on the longer sprints especially the kind in NY.

I agree, the cutback angle at Tampa where they run 5.0f turf sprints is a negative angle for me. The cutbacks usually get chewed up in the pace or start making their run after the race is virtually over. You have to have a special horse (or a suspect group of front runners) to close from deep in the field at 5.0f on the grass at Tampa. As Jim said, the "longer" turf sprints are where the cutback angle becomes a positive.

I also think turf sprints factor in the jockey a bit more than your run of the mill 6 or 7f dirt race. Most turf sprints sport a full field and a jock has got to know his horse's running style and put his horse in the proper position to win. Because it is a cavalry charge into the turn, there is all sorts of chaos going on and you have to have a good pilot to get you through it.

Replay watching is a must with turf sprints. There are multiple bad trips in these races. A different post position or a jockey switch may be the key factor to put a horse over the top.

[2 Dollar Bill]

Originally Posted by CSC

How about getting Linda Rice on ATR and asking her what makes her so successful in turf sprints? This seems to be as good a place to start with her acumen for winning turf sprints, in particular at the Spa.

Has Linda Rice been on ATR...?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 2 Dollar Bill

Has Linda Rice been on ATR...?

ATR has dipped in class before but never that low

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 2 Dollar Bill

Has Linda Rice been on ATR...?

Don't know, anyone know? I'm sure when the Spa rolls around, it would be a good question to ask her why she wins all those turf sprints.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

ATR has dipped in class before but never that low

Not a nice person? Hey if Frankel can sound sociable when he comes on ATR then anyone can.

[CSC]

I'm not sure if there is a stat for turf sprint sire leaders, but it would seem to me that City Zip's hit at a healthy %. There's one entered in the 3rd at GP today.

[Kasept]

Recap thoughts from yesterday's first project race?

[Gate Dancer]

Turnback angle appears to be alive and well. Lake also brought back horse pretty quickly (13 days and 3rd race in a month). Horse did have his only win in Turf sprint also. Stalk and close angle is pretty solid here.

[Bobby Fischer]

doctor decter is at Gulfstream today in the 5th.
I don't think he has run a race that would win this race today, but the one at Belmont wasn't bad where they came hom in 12. At least he is 15-1 probably waste some bucks including him

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

doctor decter is at Gulfstream today in the 5th.
I don't think he has run a race that would win this race today, but the one at Belmont wasn't bad where they came hom in 12. At least he is 15-1 probably waste some bucks including him

I was just about to post the same thing, I remember betting him in his debut at Belmont and he was probably the best in that race, whether we agreeing or not is a good thing I'm going to bet him if he's 8-1 or better. 15-1ML by the oddsmaker is overly generous if you ask me.

We will have to see if the Rice magic in turf sprints carries to GP, especially when she hooks up with Garcia. This would have been a great race for the sprint project threads.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Recap thoughts from yesterday's first project race?

i need to study more...

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I was just about to post the same thing, I remember betting him in his debut at Belmont and he was probably the best in that race, whether we agreeing or not is a good thing I'm going to bet him if he's 8-1 or better. 15-1ML by the oddsmaker is overly generous if you ask me.

We will have to see if the Rice magic in turf sprints carries to GP, especially when she hooks up with Garcia. This would have been a great race for the sprint project threads.

yea 4-1 isn't bad on Awakino Cat Rice/garcia either

Maker also has the 4 in a change of hands @ 8-1 ml could be a good betting race
have to see