Gotham Stakes

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

True Quality is a 4YO.

Quality Road, rather.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think it is the synthetics in California causing it. On the east coast there still seems to be a normal level of promising horses. But usually they are supplemented by a group of promising horses in the California. Now that it is all synthetics out there it is tough to get excited about any of them. So that really reduces the number of horses you can take seriously.

I disagree. I didn't name any of the California horses in my post. I think the level of talented horses on the east coast is way above "normal."

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I disagree. I didn't name any of the California horses in my post. I think the level of talented horses on the east coast is way above "normal."

Way above last year for sure. Way above normal I'm not so sure I can agree with. Really a lot depends on what happens with This One's For Phil and Notonthesamepage in the FOY. If at least one of them runs huge then things get very interesting. If both just look like sprinters who freaked then the remaining horses leave you with a pretty typical crop (excluding last years garbage).

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Don't forget about Like Now or last year's narrow miss loser Texas Wildcatter. Hell, Visionaire wasn't much horse either.

When it became clear that the inner track meet was going to be extended thru March there were really few possibilities for the Gotham, so hopefully this year will be a harbinger of things to come.

NT

It is funny you bring him up. TW raced as part of the Magna Five two weeks ago in the race from Golden Gate. Now that is a statement about quality.

Paul

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Way above last year for sure. Way above normal I'm not so sure I can agree with. Really a lot depends on what happens with This One's For Phil and Notonthesamepage in the FOY. If at least one of them runs huge then things get very interesting. If both just look like sprinters who freaked then the remaining horses leave you with a pretty typical crop (excluding last years garbage).

Isn't there always flashy sprinters this time of year that are maurading as derby contenders (Henny Hughes, Keyed Entry, J Be K, etc..)?
With the FOL being a one-turn mile this year, I'm not sure if we'll learn anything about those two until later on.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

Isn't there always flashy sprinters this time of year that are maurading as derby contenders (Henny Hughes, Keyed Entry, J Be K, etc..)?
With the FOL being a one-turn mile this year, I'm not sure if we'll learn anything about those two until later on.

Never running Beyers like those two threw up.

[Travis Stone]

If most of these horses stay together, we're looking at a bang-up Kings Bishop at Saratoga this year.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Never running Beyers like those two threw up.

I don't believe in those Beyers for one second. If those two throw in a couple of clunkers those Beyers will be adjusted down to 95 or so.

[SOREHOOF]

I don't trust ANY Beyer for races run over synthetic for that matter. The Cali horses are fit and I wouldn't want to toss them for that reason alone. They're tough to back never racing on dirt but that's the new wrinkle we all have to live with.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

I don't believe in those Beyers for one second. If those two throw in a couple of clunkers those Beyers will be adjusted down to 95 or so.

Really? What speed figures did you come up with for that day's racing? Did you split the variant? If so, and you must have, when did you do it and why?

[Linny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

True Quality is a 4YO. Mr. Fantasy and Dunkirk are brilliant?

I think he meant Quality Road.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Linny

I think he meant Quality Road.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=21

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

Isn't there always flashy sprinters this time of year that are maurading as derby contenders (Henny Hughes, Keyed Entry, J Be K, etc..)?
With the FOL being a one-turn mile this year, I'm not sure if we'll learn anything about those two until later on.

People always want to start ranking the crop in February....which is hard to do.
However, if I had to judge it right now I would say that it looks like a pretty decent crop....maybe somewhere around average for the past ten years or so. Now, if you take an average (or maybe even slightly above-average) crop and compare them to last year's collection of three-legged donkeys, these guys look like a crop full of Holy Bulls.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

True Quality is a 4YO. Mr. Fantasy and Dunkirk are brilliant?

I do agree, though, that right now there are way more promising 3YOs than last year. It isn't even close. Even if some of these turn out to be distance challenged there is definitely some prospective talent out there.

None of them, however, are named Pioneer of the Nile.

Totally agree. Mr. Fantasy hasn't proven much yet. He cantered through two state bred races but we won't know brillance until he gets confronted and goes eye to eye with someone. He'll get the distance, we just don't know what kind of heart he has yet. But this is a fun group that will get more interesting as we go forward.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Never running Beyers like those two threw up.

Henny Hughes never got back from Dubai in time for any consideration and he didn't run again until July at Monmouth of that year. And he ran exclusively as a sprinter.
But no one really knows whether their horse can go the distance or not. Look at Big Brown last year. His breeding never indicated he would be able to go the distance he went. Keyed Entry never ran back to his form after the Hutcheson where he put up a huge Beyer.
But Hard Spun was the most amazing horse to me. A solid sprinter who had the most endurance of any horse I've ever seen.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Henny Hughes never got back from Dubai in time for any consideration and he didn't run again until July at Monmouth of that year. And he ran exclusively as a sprinter.
But no one really knows whether their horse can go the distance or not. Look at Big Brown last year. His breeding never indicated he would be able to go the distance he went. Keyed Entry never ran back to his form after the Hutcheson where he put up a huge Beyer.
But Hard Spun was the most amazing horse to me. A solid sprinter who had the most endurance of any horse I've ever seen.

Where in my posts did you gather that I was suggesting I expect them to stretch out successfully?

Hard Spun had the most endurance of any horse you've ever seen? I take it you haven't seen many horses.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Where in my posts did you gather that I was suggesting I expect them to stretch out successfully?

Hard Spun had the most endurance of any horse you've ever seen? I take it you haven't seen many horses.

Look at his splits in the Derby and see how anyone else in that field finished who tried to stay near him. The name does suit you though.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Look at his splits in the Derby and see how anyone else in that field finished who tried to stay near him. The name does suit you though.

But it was a mistake that my post was in response to your post. I intended it for another post. Sorry to have confused you.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Look at his splits in the Derby and see how anyone else in that field finished who tried to stay near him. The name does suit you though.

Those horses were Stormello, Cowtown Cat, and Teuflesberg. There isn't a scenario in the world short of every horse falling down that any of those three could have been a factor in the Derby. Segdefield wasn't that far back and managed to run the race of his life finishing fifth.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

And was still beaten by Imawildandcrazyguy