Who says racing doesn't attract big names...

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

For what its worth, Elton John and Santana will perform at the Dubai World Cup meeting at Meydan on March 27.

http://dubairacenight.com/elton-john...bai-world-cup/

No Scav?

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Pat they use as much dope in Dubai as any place in the world. Your kidding yourself if you think the place is devoid of vet's with black bags

Hey Freddy

I'm not saying there aren't vets with black bags...I'm saying no lasix, no bute. No "legal" raceday medication. As for the other stuff, that's up to the testing to catch and whatever will be, will be.

I feel like everyone grossly misinterprets that statement, when I make it, and that includes Steve Byk per our back and forth on ATR a few weeks back. To me - raceday medication specifically means the legalized drugs that North American racing jurisdictions explicitly allow and the rest of the world does not. To NOT agree that Lasix and Bute have a stranglehold on American racing is beyond comprehension to me...

If you medicate illegally...and you aren't caught - so be it - and that happens all over - there is no reason to think I am an uninitiated novice, not wise to the ways of the world.

Who knows if that was a difference for Tahitian Warrior today, but on the surface, I thought his being on turf was a major sign against. I didn't have him near my top three.

[freddymo]

You think horses race less in the states because of Lasix and Bute? You don't think Godolphin is capable of saying they arent using Lasix race day but actually do? Why because you think the blood samples sent to the testing facilities aren't tampered with. As you have said a million times its their game..They play the way they see fit.

[PatCummings]

Alright Freddy. Source?

It's their home course...the game is ours.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Alright Freddy. Source?

It's their home course...the game is ours.

Pat I am immensely respectful of your work and believe you do a nice job. The Dubai carnival is a sham of a meet.When you are in "KGB's" poker room you know he can splash the pot whenever he feels like it... It's not a country with government that remotely resembles a democratic country. I am puzzled by your take. The races. save the World cup and a few select others, are macerations of what the people who OWN the country want. Every single thing about racing in Dubai is manipulated to fit the egos and wills of the ruling Monarchy..

Does that mean the races are fixed? NO! but for all intense purposes its a staged carnival... I just which "management" was calling the shots lol

[Scav]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Pat I am immensely respectful of your work and believe you do a nice job. The Dubai carnival is a sham of a meet.When you are in "KGB's" poker room you know he can splash the pot whenever he feels like it... It's not a country with government that remotely resembles a democratic country. I am puzzled by your take. The races. save the World cup and a few select others, are macerations of what the people who OWN the country want. Every single thing about racing in Dubai is manipulated to fit the egos and wills of the ruling Monarchy..

Does that mean the races are fixed? NO! but for all intense purposes its a staged carnival... I just which "management" was calling the shots lol

Rounders quotes....Freddy, you are my favorite

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Scav

Rounders quotes....Freddy, you are my favorite

You missed the management reference to HBO's Carnival series. Go rent that series on a shiity Chic town day that was some sick TV

[Scav]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You missed the management reference to HBO's Carnival series. Go rent that series on a shiity Chic town day that was some sick TV

I always have wanted to go to Carnaval

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Hey Freddy

I'm not saying there aren't vets with black bags...I'm saying no lasix, no bute. No "legal" raceday medication. As for the other stuff, that's up to the testing to catch and whatever will be, will be.

I feel like everyone grossly misinterprets that statement, when I make it, and that includes Steve Byk per our back and forth on ATR a few weeks back. To me - raceday medication specifically means the legalized drugs that North American racing jurisdictions explicitly allow and the rest of the world does not. To NOT agree that Lasix and Bute have a stranglehold on American racing is beyond comprehension to me...

If you medicate illegally...and you aren't caught - so be it - and that happens all over - there is no reason to think I am an uninitiated novice, not wise to the ways of the world.

Who knows if that was a difference for Tahitian Warrior today, but on the surface, I thought his being on turf was a major sign against. I didn't have him near my top three.

Very few if any states allow raceday bute. In CA every puts down bute on the vet card because a lot of horses train on it (and they do all over the world as well) and saying you are running on it covers your ass. If you dont put down bute and your test comes back a trace level it can be called a positive. The idea that horses are legally getting bute on raceday is wrong. And the last major study done in South Africa showed that Lasix did indeed help prevent bleeding so perhaps the rest of the world has it wrong.

The idea that eliminating Lasix would solve the supposed problems it causes is not only unfounded but absolutely wrong. Just as the steroid ban has done absolutely nothing to alter the course of American racing (same guys winning, same guy losing, handle down, horses injured at same rate, etc...) eliminating Lasix would not help either. But a lot more horses would bleed, more would require extensive time off costing owners more money and making it harder for tracks to fill races as well as causing more unusual form reversal.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The idea that eliminating Lasix would solve the supposed problems it causes is not only unfounded but absolutely wrong. Just as the steroid ban has done absolutely nothing to alter the course of American racing (same guys winning, same guy losing, handle down, horses injured at same rate, etc...) eliminating Lasix would not help either. But a lot more horses would bleed, more would require extensive time off costing owners more money and making it harder for tracks to fill races as well as causing more unusual form reversal.

Chuck - I agree, eliminating Lasix would do all those things you talk about, but I believe that is because of the fundamental differences in the general status of the American thoroughbred breed and the rest of the world. Same body, different internal processing mechanisms, as adapted by their human handlers. It is possible to run six times in six weeks and do it consistently well, without Lasix, in field sizes routinely between 12 and 14. While the Dubai model doesn't fit American racing, I don't think an expansive Wal Mart-like strategy is exactly helping racing in this country.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Pat I am immensely respectful of your work and believe you do a nice job. The Dubai carnival is a sham of a meet.When you are in "KGB's" poker room you know he can splash the pot whenever he feels like it... It's not a country with government that remotely resembles a democratic country. I am puzzled by your take. The races. save the World cup and a few select others, are macerations of what the people who OWN the country want. Every single thing about racing in Dubai is manipulated to fit the egos and wills of the ruling Monarchy..

Does that mean the races are fixed? NO! but for all intense purposes its a staged carnival... I just which "management" was calling the shots lol

Freddy...

Your kind words are appreciated...but would mean more if they weren't filled with such back-handed praise. "You do a nice job" but on a product that is allegedly "manipulated to fit the egos and wills" of those who sponsor the sport. Does anyone tell a groom on the backstretch they do a great job picking up dung?

So I'm wondering what factual examples, save for fixed races which, you could offer for review. Because otherwise, I find your words and opinions completely meaningless and without warrant.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Chuck - I agree, eliminating Lasix would do all those things you talk about, but I believe that is because of the fundamental differences in the general status of the American thoroughbred breed and the rest of the world. Same body, different internal processing mechanisms, as adapted by their human handlers. It is possible to run six times in six weeks and do it consistently well, without Lasix, in field sizes routinely between 12 and 14. While the Dubai model doesn't fit American racing, I don't think an expansive Wal Mart-like strategy is exactly helping racing in this country.

Pat
The general status of the American breed has nothing to do with Lasix or any other racetrack medication. That is simply a myth. The Euros have always bought american breds and still continue to do so. The greatest and most influential stallion in modern Euro racing, Sadlers Wells is American bred through and through, as is Danehill. Neither had long careers, neither raced often. The fundemental difference between American and other countries racing is dirt and training locations and sheer scope. Racing in a european country is much closer to racing in an individual state. It wasnt more than 20 years ago that European champions were often mocked in this country by the same writers who hate lasix so much because of thier often brief and seemingly highly scrpited schedules. Comparing racing in different locations and blaming Lasix or Bute for the differences seems like a misnomer yet somehow it has become something akin to settled science within the sport. Which is sad because it really is much ado about nothing and often overshadows some of the real issues that the breed faces.