Goldlikova vs Zenyatta

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.

It's her level of greatness that's questioned.

As in, like, there is no freaking way she's better than a Secretariat or Spectacular Bid.

Nor is she greater than a number of fillies and mares I can think of in the last 25 years.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

As in, like, there is no freaking way she's better than a Secretariat or Spectacular Bid.

I dont think people with a clue suggest that.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I dont think people with a clue suggest that.

HAH!

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I dont think people with a clue suggest that.

Didn't Mike Smith suggest it on 60 Minutes?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Didn't Mike Smith suggest it on 60 Minutes?

you think jockeys that ride horses should be taken seriously? I think all the falls start to affect the thinking process......lots of beer as well.

Gary Stevens says Zenyatta is the horse he has ever seen.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

you think jockeys that ride horses should be taken seriously? I think all the falls start to affect the thinking process......lots of beer as well.

Gary Stevens says Zenyatta is the horse he has ever seen.

I don't think they should, but I figured you might take his opinion seriously.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

My reason for living has just ended!

Actually, I was going to ask you if it was okay to start up a poll to see if there was anyone on DT more blatantly stupid or annoying than Smoothie.

I guess that won't be necessary now!!!

I'm sorry. It was a tired act. Specifically, a recent repeat of a post designed only to ellicit a response was the tripwire.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I'm sorry. It was a tired act. Specifically, a recent repeat of a post designed only to ellicit a response was the tripwire.

Steve, you deserve HOY for pulling that trigger!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.

Ignoring the reality of her unique circumstances doesnt eliminate them as a factor in detracting from her accomplishments.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Chuck, these starts aren't about whether the competition was at it's best. It's about what they've done in graded events. You're correct, G has had more competitive races than Z. It shouldn't need misleading stats to just say so.

But you do and they are hardly misleading. How many times have we heard that she won 14 grade 1 races when her credentials are questioned? I think what the writer is saying is that the quality of the graded race that one mare raced in far outweighs the quality of similarly graded events the other mare competed in. Just adding one strong race into a 20 race sample doesnt really make the argement presented misleading does it?

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

But you do and they are hardly misleading. How many times have we heard that she won 14 grade 1 races when her credentials are questioned? I think what the writer is saying is that the quality of the graded race that one mare raced in far outweighs the quality of similarly graded events the other mare competed in. Just adding one strong race into a 20 race sample doesnt really make the argement presented misleading does it?

Of course you are correct, Goldikova ran a much tougher campaign. Perhaps I misspoke, the stats aren't misleading, they lead you right to the point that G faced a heartier bunch and in more races to boot. The stats just aren't complete ... unless you only count who you've beaten in races that you've won. I guess I just hate when figures are twisted to exaggerate a point. You posted earlier that no one is discounting her effort in the classic, actually they are in this case. They chose to include one BC race and not the other. My original post was merely to state that Z beat the dog sh!t out of several multiple graded winners on the dirt at the classic distance. If the writer is going to use stats, use them all.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Steve, you deserve HOY for pulling that trigger!

Thank you Lori, but alas, it would be a hollow victory... A make up vote for earlier campaigns when I faced better competition and shipped around the country in pursuit of real challenges. You know, back when I still drank, smoked and was at the top of my game.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

Of course you are correct, Goldikova ran a much tougher campaign. Perhaps I misspoke, the stats aren't misleading, they lead you right to the point that G faced a heartier bunch and in more races to boot. The stats just aren't complete ... unless you only count who you've beaten in races that you've won. I guess I just hate when figures are twisted to exaggerate a point. You posted earlier that no one is discounting her effort in the classic, actually they are in this case. They chose to include one BC race and not the other. My original post was merely to state that Z beat the dog sh!t out of several multiple graded winners on the dirt at the classic distance. If the writer is going to use stats, use them all.

I suppose technically you are correct though some people dont count races in which the horse doesn't win as the writer here does. Not saying it is right or wrong. But the hypothesis is still the same, Goldikova's graded schedule was far superior than Zenyatta's. You would think that people would realize this simply by looking at names of the races but stubborn Zenyatta fans refuse to believe that she would have had a far greater time staying undefeated in tougher competition like Goldikova faced.

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I suppose technically you are correct though some people dont count races in which the horse doesn't win as the writer here does. Not saying it is right or wrong. But the hypothesis is still the same, Goldikova's graded schedule was far superior than Zenyatta's. You would think that people would realize this simply by looking at names of the races but stubborn Zenyatta fans refuse to believe that she would have had a far greater time staying undefeated in tougher competition like Goldikova faced.

I was as disappointed as anyone at the road Z's camp took to the classic. Hat's off to Goldikova and company for choosing the better path.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Thank you Lori, but alas, it would be a hollow victory... A make up vote for earlier campaigns when I faced better competition and shipped around the country in pursuit of real challenges. You know, back when I still drank, smoked and was at the top of my game.

1999/2000 Parting Glass HOY!

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Thank you Lori, but alas, it would be a hollow victory... A make up vote for earlier campaigns when I faced better competition and shipped around the country in pursuit of real challenges. You know, back when I still drank, smoked and was at the top of my game.

If you don't want it, can we give it to the Mig for his excellent performance over the year?

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

winning 14 grade 1 races, two BC races, and losing the other at the wire makes you great...........please name another horse with similar accomplishments that you dont consider great.......I need a frame of reference from your view point, maybe you only consider like 10 horses in the history great.

Not denying her greatness, but the point of the article was to reveal the true quality of those "Grade 1" races in the company of below par California females. So we're talking about +/-4 true G1 fields, one of them in open company on the pro-ride.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ignoring the reality of her unique circumstances doesnt eliminate them as a factor in detracting from her accomplishments.

Well stated. You'd make a solid modern day racing writer. The editors clean up stuff like the missing apostrophe between the n and t in doesn't. It's a breeze.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Well stated. You'd make a solid modern day racing writer. The editors clean up stuff like the missing apostrophe between the n and t in doesn't. It's a breeze.

If I wanted to be a modern turf writer i would write things like:

Zenyatta is the greatest horse I have ever seen and has done more for racing than Abe Lincoln did for slaves.

Or

Lasix is evil. Lasix is evil. Lasix is evil.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Thank you Lori, but alas, it would be a hollow victory... A make up vote for earlier campaigns when I faced better competition and shipped around the country in pursuit of real challenges. You know, back when I still drank, smoked and was at the top of my game.

So pissed we weren't friends back then.