pk4 payout to the Travers

Originally Posted by OTM Al

The answer to your question is to be able to accurately foresee the future. Let us all know when you figure that out.

Thanks for making my point.

[NTamm1215]

I'm reasonably certain the P4 to Golden Ticket was paying 3700 for a dollar not 50 cents. Thus, anyone who had a 50 cent ticket lost about 1600 with the dead heat.

[ranger5830]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm reasonably certain the P4 to Golden Ticket was paying 3700 for a dollar not 50 cents. Thus, anyone who had a 50 cent ticket lost about 1600 with the dead heat.

Sorry, but that's just not correct. Here are all the $1 pick 4 will pays ending in the Travers:

1-$10656
2-$7086
3-$7485
4-$3798.50
5-$1049.50
6-$530
7-$1508
8-$887
9-$1020.50
10-$671.50
11-$8309

[jms62]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm reasonably certain the P4 to Golden Ticket was paying 3700 for a dollar not 50 cents. Thus, anyone who had a 50 cent ticket lost about 1600 with the dead heat.

It was 3742.50 for .50 cents.

[TheSpyder]

Thought it odd that there was just one payout no matter which horse you had, when the pick 3 had two.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

They probably will now. It happened in a spot where enough people will complain about it -- and I can't really think of a position anyone can argue or make to say that it is a fair or competent rule.

The argument would be that the pool is split amongst all winning tickets, just as would happen had only one horse won. One could argue that the rules on the win, double, etc. are the wrong way to do it and inconsistant with standard payoff rules and they should be changed.

Pretty much everything else suggested is based on subjective ideas of "fairness", whatever that is supposed to mean. Fair to me means unbiased, that the rules were followed exactly and not interpreted, which is what happened here. What is more "fair", reducing the payoff of the majority of winners by a lower percentage or rewarding the few who had the longshot by reducing the payoff by a lower percentage? The answer to that question is completely subjective, but I'd dare say if you took a vote amongst the winning ticket holders, the current rule would stand. This wouldn't be the case with the P6 rule you mentioned.

What is also a fact is people will complain when an oddity like this happens regardless of the rules.

[Immanuel Kant]

It's completely "fair" and "acceptable" because it's in the rules


Wow!

If history has taught us anything......and I'm not convinced it has......statements like the one above allow for excuses such as , "I was only folllowing orders" or, "I'm just doing my job"

Just because it is a rule does not make it right...

If the other exotics can have different pay-outs the pick 4 should as well.

The rule is wrong...it is wrong because it is not a FAIR rule and it should be changed

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Immanuel Kant

It's completely "fair" and "acceptable" because it's in the rules


Wow!

If history has taught us anything......and I'm not convinced it has......statements like the one above allow for excuses such as , "I was only folllowing orders" or, "I'm just doing my job"

Just because it is a rule does not make it right...

If the other exotics can have different pay-outs the pick 4 should as well.

The rule is wrong...it is wrong because it is not a FAIR rule and it should be changed

I've yet to see a convincing argument about how it isn't "right". But as I said before, by playing the bet, you have subject yourself to the rules. Don't play the bet and then complain the outcome isn't fair when the rules have been followed to the letter just because you don't like the outcome. The outcome was fair.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ranger5830

They changed the off-the-turf pick 6 rule at gulfstream, why can't they change this one too?

Gee, I wonder how that happened.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I've yet to see a convincing argument about how it isn't "right". But as I said before, by playing the bet, you have subject yourself to the rules. Don't play the bet and then complain the outcome isn't fair when the rules have been followed to the letter just because you don't like the outcome. The outcome was fair.

Ok dude, we get it. It is the rule. You find that the be logical and reasonable and therefore accept it as "fair". Specifically in terms of what I got paid to the 3 yesterday, it was "fair". In terms of what I find logical and reasonable, I am still in search of an explanation as to why that is the rule, and applied differently than every other wager with the exception of the pk6. There was nobody at the track that could actually explain it and once they uncovered the "rule", there was certainly nobody to provide a reasonable explanation. I only point that out because of your insistence that we should have not made the bet without knowledge of the rule. I'm pretty sure at least 90% of the sharp folks on this board were as surprised to see a single payout in the pk4 yesterday.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Ok dude, we get it. It is the rule. You find that the be logical and reasonable and therefore accept it as "fair". Specifically in terms of what I got paid to the 3 yesterday, it was "fair". In terms of what I find logical and reasonable, I am still in search of an explanation as to why that is the rule, and applied differently than every other wager with the exception of the pk6. There was nobody at the track that could actually explain it and once they uncovered the "rule", there was certainly nobody to provide a reasonable explanation. I only point that out because of your insistence that we should have not made the bet without knowledge of the rule. I'm pretty sure at least 90% of the sharp folks on this board were as surprised to see a single payout in the pk4 yesterday.

No, you can do whatever you want with your money. Complaining after the fact because you didn't know a rule that was followed to the letter is pretty lame in my book and is all on you. Try it with the IRS or a State Trooper and see what happens. I don't know why they made the rule the way they did, but if you think about it, splitting pools is just as arbitrary as paying one pool to all winning tickets.

I do agree it would be simpler to have the rules consistant across bets, but if you want that, a well reasoned letter to the NYR&WB will go much further than complaining on a message board. In fact, they've established a fan advisory board that you can also write about such issues. At least you seem pretty reasonable and understand why it happened. There's some guy at DRF claiming that NYRA altered the finish line for the photo and stole some of the money because he couldn't figure out the math so it couldn't be right. Almost as priceless as the guy that claimed Ellen McLain should be let go because there was no t-shirt giveaway this year. I always figure a lot of things must be going right if so many are complaining.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

No, you can do whatever you want with your money. Complaining after the fact because you didn't know a rule that was followed to the letter is pretty lame in my book and is all on you. Try it with the IRS or a State Trooper and see what happens. I don't know why they made the rule the way they did, but if you think about it, splitting pools is just as arbitrary as paying one pool to all winning tickets.

I do agree it would be simpler to have the rules consistant across bets, but if you want that, a well reasoned letter to the NYR&WB will go much further than complaining on a message board. In fact, they've established a fan advisory board that you can also write about such issues. At least you seem pretty reasonable and understand why it happened. There's some guy at DRF claiming that NYRA altered the finish line for the photo and stole some of the money because he couldn't figure out the math so it couldn't be right. Almost as priceless as the guy that claimed Ellen McLain should be let go because there was no t-shirt giveaway this year. I always figure a lot of things must be going right if so many are complaining.

Ok, I think you have finally found the word to put us all on the same page, it is "inconsistent". When I started off by saying I got "jobbed" I was saying so in a different fashion than your friend over at DRF. Other than it is the rule, I have yet to find a person to be able to explain it.

[dylbert]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

It's completely "fair" and "acceptable" because it's in the rules

4011.26 (h) Dead heats. In the event of a dead heat for win in any or all pick four races, all pick four tickets designating either horse to win in said race or races shall be eligible for participation in the remaining pick four races, and the net pool shall be equally distributed to the winners, that is, the net pool will be divided by the total amount represented by all winning tickets and the resulting price, per dollar, and after breakage, shall be the payoff price, which shall be uniform for any winning combination.

If you don't know the rules of a bet and you still play it, it's your fault when something like this happens.

Thanks for being voice of reason... I will gladly trade my tickets that had Nonios and Street Life.

If one does not like terms and conditions under which one chooses to wager, simply do not make wager. Personally, dead heat impacts a successful wager for me about every 5 to 7 years.

[dagolfer33]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Ok, I think you have finally found the word to put us all on the same page, it is "inconsistent". When I started off by saying I got "jobbed" I was saying so in a different fashion than your friend over at DRF. Other than it is the rule, I have yet to find a person to be able to explain it.

The pool should be split, then the winning tickets divided. Just like in the pk3 pool. Everybody and their grandma knows this is the way it should be done. Period. Who cares what the rule is? The payout is unfair. Period. Now, the goat is saying that when you make the bet you play by their rules, and that is true. However, most people play hoping not to split any pools with dead heats. It is a rare chance. Lets review: Fair according to the rules, Yes....Fair according to actual fairness, No.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dagolfer33

The pool should be split, then the winning tickets divided. Just like in the pk3 pool. Everybody and their grandma knows this is the way it should be done. Period. Who cares what the rule is? The payout is unfair. Period. Now, the goat is saying that when you make the bet you play by their rules, and that is true. However, most people play hoping not to split any pools with dead heats. It is a rare chance. Lets review: Fair according to the rules, Yes....Fair according to actual fairness, No.

Agree hopefully it will be looked at, continuing to dwell on it is a waste of time at this point, no one is giving us anymore money.

[RockHardTen1985]

Serling commented on this on talking horses. Not sure who said what, I missed the shows on Capitalotb this morning. Not even sure if I was said on capital, but something was said and he responded. If anyone knows what exactly was said, I am curious.

[-BT-]

by divine intervention i had the 3 on my ticket
i was watching the race with Heels, and this was the sequence of events

mid-stretch i was 3700+ richer
the tax man was dialing my number

nearing the wire he started to hang up the phone

photo hits, i think my pk4 just went up in smokes, b/c also by divine intervention i didn't have alpha.

DH happens, woo i'll take 1700

payoffs, WTF

in a nutshell

the closer they got to the wire the more money i lost, and the horse i picked, technically, WON, ha

-bt-

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by -BT-

by divine intervention i had the 3 on my ticket
i was watching the race with Heels, and this is was the sequence of events

mid-stretch i was 3700+ richer
the tax man was dialing my number

nearing the wire he started to hang up the phone

photo hits, i think my pk4 just went up in smokes, b/c also by divine intervention i didn't have alpha.

DH happens, woo i'll take 1700

payoffs, WTF

in a nutshell

the closer they got to the wire i felt as though the more money i lost, ha

-bt-

Its one thing to feel this way. TotAlly understand. It was a HORRIBLE BEAT. Its another thing for people to say robbery or that they were cheated. The rule is flawed, maybe it gets adressed?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Its one thing to feel this way. TotAlly understand. It was a HORRIBLE BEAT. Its another thing for people to say robbery or that they were cheated. The rule is flawed, maybe it gets adressed?

Agree. Bad rule but we have to live with it. Anyone defending the rule as fair is simply an idiot looking for an argument.

[dagolfer33]

Originally Posted by jms62

Agree hopefully it will be looked at, continuing to dwell on it is a waste of time at this point, no one is giving us anymore money.

I only had Alpha, so I only benefitted from the outcome. Still, this is my stance.