Jockey Colonies -- few real good ones are out there

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Gus I think Cornelio and Rajiv are betting then and of these guys......
Desormeaux, Trujillo, Carmouche, JC Caraballo, Contreras, and G Saez

Why, just because they ride in New York?

They both use to ride at Gulfstream and recently decided to stay in New York for the winter. I understand the money is good at the Big A. It's hard to convince me that they wouldn't move their tack back to Gulfstream for the winter if they were winning more races.

[booner]

I started following the Tampa Bay meet closer the past 2 years and like the jocks there. Pretty good riding going on as Doug stated above.

One jock that I have started watching more is Florent "Frenchie" Geroux. He has really caught my attention at the Kentucky Downs meet this year with a couple of heady rides. He won't be able to overtake Rosie and James Graham at Fairgrounds this winter but will get his fair share of quality mounts. Solid rider.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Except for the Ortiz brothers who have recently emerged as arguably top tier jocks, who else stays in NY for the winter. Cornelio and Rajiv could not compete in Gulfstream on a consistent basis, so they decided to take the easier route and deal with the harsh winter. Rosie is about the only exception. Paco (16 mounts at Saratoga this summer, hardly counts for often enough) riding full time at Gulfstream more than makes up for the average jock choosing an easier meet.

Having Desormeaux, Trujillo, Carmouche, JC Caraballo, Contreras, and G Saez more than makes up the difference. Although, Saratoga has the best meet throughout the year, Gulfstream winter meet has the BEST jock colony assembled.

This has to be the first time in the history of the internet that anyone said having Jose Caraballo, Kendrick Carmouche and Luis Contreras in a riding colony made it the strongest in the country. Cornelio and Rajiv Maragh are Willie Shoemaker and Eddie Arcaro compared to those three titans of the turf. Rajiv has popped down for limited mounts at GP in the last two years and is 8-27 at the two championship meets. He did fine in the 2010 and 2011 meet, finishing in the top 10 both times.

Irad and Jose Ortiz would likely be top 10 riders for the "championship" portion of the meet and are not there. Neither is Rosie. Desormeaux? He was 6-63 at GP last year before picking up scraps in a depleted colony over a type of surface he rides exceptionally well in CA. Gabriel Saez has bounced around every winter spot possible (Aqueduct, Oaklawn and now GP) and simply followed Jamie Ness there for the winter. Saez is the 2nd leading rider at Monmouth with 4 more wins than Eddie Castro, who missed a month of the meet. His presence at Gulfstream is merely a blip on the radar.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Why, just because they ride in New York?

They both use to ride at Gulfstream and recently decided to stay in New York for the winter. I understand the money is good at the Big A. It's hard to convince me that they wouldn't move their tack back to Gulfstream for the winter if they were winning more races.

Gus the 2 we mention above are both riding really well right now. Not just on cheap claimers either. Corny won multiple G1's with Palace this summer. Maragh is the regular rider of Artemis Argotera and Wicked Strong.

[Pants II]

I think Rajiv Maragh is mediocre and a benefactor of a dwindling colony.

But to each his own. This is the sport present day.

And the Ortiz brothers seem to get a lot of love but I find them to be nauseatingly frustrating. They're too inconsistent lately.

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Gus the 2 we mention above are both riding really well right now. Not just on cheap claimers either. Corny won multiple G1's with Palace this summer. Maragh is the regular rider of Artemis Argotera and Wicked Strong.

I think I follow racing enough to have this information off the top of my head. I understand the New York love.

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

This has to be the first time in the history of the internet that anyone said having Jose Caraballo, Kendrick Carmouche and Luis Contreras in a riding colony made it the strongest in the country. Cornelio and Rajiv Maragh are Willie Shoemaker and Eddie Arcaro compared to those three titans of the turf. Rajiv has popped down for limited mounts at GP in the last two years and is 8-27 at the two championship meets. He did fine in the 2010 and 2011 meet, finishing in the top 10 both times.

Irad and Jose Ortiz would likely be top 10 riders for the "championship" portion of the meet and are not there. Neither is Rosie. Desormeaux? He was 6-63 at GP last year before picking up scraps in a depleted colony over a type of surface he rides exceptionally well in CA. Gabriel Saez has bounced around every winter spot possible (Aqueduct, Oaklawn and now GP) and simply followed Jamie Ness there for the winter. Saez is the 2nd leading rider at Monmouth with 4 more wins than Eddie Castro, who missed a month of the meet. His presence at Gulfstream is merely a blip on the radar.

If you want to debate that Rosie takes Sarartoga over the top, I'll have to say that I'll take Paco over Rosie any day of the week.

The jury is still out on the Ortiz brothers.

[-BT-]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

This would actually make an interesting topic.

I've seen a few people cut up Presque Isle's lately, but objectively speaking, they might be a borderline top 5 jockey colony.

Francisco Torres couldn't get anything going at PID, and he left for Arlington Park and was leading rider at Arlington in 2012 by both total wins and win percentage.

Taylor Rice had the bug here last year, and was just 9-for-90. She went to Hawthorne and was 41-for-196 (21% wins) $2.34 ROI and she even did OK in New York until she lost her bug.

Scott Spieth goes to Cleveland and rides Thistle Downs on PID's dark days. He's 27-for-79 (34% wins) $2.10 ROI at Thistle. Meanwhile, Speith is just 7th in the standings at PID, winning at 13% with a $1.00 ROI

Deshawn Parker is the king-pin at Mountaineer, year in and year out. He's winning 27% at MNR this year...he rides PID on the MNR's dark days and is just 12% at PID. Last year he was 34-for-403 (8% wins) at PID, while utterly dominating MNR's standings.

The leading rider at Tampa Bay Downs this year was Antiono Gallardo (122-for-422) 27% wins. Ronnie Allen JR. was 2nd in the standings at 22% wins. Daniel Centeno was 3rd.

By comparison, Gallardo is also the leading rider at PID, but with just 21% wins. Ronnie Allen is 3rd in the standings at PID, and with just 17% wins. Meanwhile, Centeno is the leading rider at Delaware Park.

Willie Martinez is currently 9th in the standings at PID 24-for-195 (12% wins) and he won a Breeders' Cup Sprint with Trinniberg, not too long ago.

Obviously, New York and California are 1-2 by a long way. Monmouth Park is a one man show. Paco Lopez (120 wins) has more than double the next guy (54)

Churchill's running a mini meet and is 3rd best. Edgard Zayas, a guy who hasn't even been riding for 3 years is absolutely dominating Gulfstream's standings over Ramsey Zimmerman...he was a very good Remington and EVD jock, but ran into drug problems and hard times.

There really are few good ones left out there.

from what i recall, Torres usually does well in Chicago b/c he's close to or is first call from Midwest, seems like he rides more for them at Hawthorne then Arlington.
both Gallardo and Allen are 1-2 for Midwest at TBD as Dan mentioned.
Cenento, there is a guy who use to be money at TBD, owned that track, him an carlos montolvo. I thought Centeno did well up in MTH, but he lost value on a lot of rides once the north found out about him.
Speith, beating up on anything OHIO shouldn't be a feather in anyone's cap, but the guy usually burns me pretty good at TBD on the lawn for some reason.
Also as Dan mentioned, Deshawn simply doesn't get mounts at TBD, and it's really confusing. The guy is usually at the top of the list every year for wins, but if you see him on 1 maybe 2 mounts a day its a miracle, and usually even those aren't "live"

How about a little love for them cajuns? I think FG seems to have a decent colony