Will we have two women running for President?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

I just don't think hillary would get enough votes to win. So many people would vote against her simply for being a woman. Not all democrats have progressive ideas. I know republicans wouldn't vote for her but the wiccans will have some say(unfortunatly)

I don't think her being a woman is the issue at all.

Somer-

You have no idea how much energy a Hillary Clinton nomination will give to the social conservatives. I think your wish in this matter is also a Republican strategist's wet dream. Along with the nightmare for anyone who actually wants to see a Democrat elected.

I'm not saying I understand or agree with the animosity she engenders. I'm just saying that a cold clinical look at reality should tell you she's unelectable.

Dems need a Southern moderate. They also need to stop letting the Republicans define them. I doubt you see Hillary nominated. Too easy a target. You would vote for her. I might even vote for her if the Republicans miss the boat on McCain. But she'd lose in a landslide. And then you could go back into your cave for another 4 years feeling righteous.

BTW: You guys are both wrong about McCain.

He is easily the most electable figure in either party. His problem is getting the nomination. He is essentially a libertarian in a party that has abandoned the idea that the government has no role in our personal decisions. If he is nominated he will be tough to beat.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by chromer

BTW: You guys are both wrong about McCain.

He is easily the most electable figure in either party. His problem is getting the nomination. He is essentially a libertarian in a party that has abandoned the idea that the government has no role in our personal decisions. If he is nominated he will be tough to beat.

I don't know how i'm wrong, i said he is the favorite.

When i say his time has passed it just means that he is not a fresh face anymore, no longer the maverick. I never would have pegged him as a real libertarian though.

The Bush presidency has done much for McCains chances in my view. When he starts making speeches about bringing back some fiscal restraint to the party he'll find many sympathetic ears.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by chromer

Somer-

You have no idea how much energy a Hillary Clinton nomination will give to the social conservatives. I think your wish in this matter is also a Republican strategist's wet dream. Along with the nightmare for anyone who actually wants to see a Democrat elected.

I'm not saying I understand or agree with the animosity she engenders. I'm just saying that a cold clinical look at reality should tell you she's unelectable.

Dems need a Southern moderate. They also need to stop letting the Republicans define them. I doubt you see Hillary nominated. Too easy a target. You would vote for her. I might even vote for her if the Republicans miss the boat on McCain. But she'd lose in a landslide. And then you could go back into your cave for another 4 years feeling righteous.

My cave? Righteous? OK, why don't you crawl back under your rock and feel superior?

Somer-

My apologies. I reread my post and you're right. It didn't come off the way I meant.

I had actually written it as "we can go back in our caves and feel righteous" but then rewrote it as it is, added another few lines and then didn't like those and so deleted them. I finally thought I was spending too much time on it and and posted what you saw.

My bad. Didn't mean it to come off as it did. Hope you understand no offense was intended though I can't deny that it is clearly, in hindsight, offensive.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by chromer

Somer-

My apologies. I reread my post and you're right. It didn't come off the way I meant.

I had actually written it as "we can go back in our caves and feel righteous" but then rewrote it as it is, added another few lines and then didn't like those and so deleted them. I finally thought I was spending too much time on it and and posted what you saw.

My bad. Didn't mean it to come off as it did. Hope you understand no offense was intended though I can't deny that it is clearly, in hindsight, offensive.

Don't worry about it...I just posted a comeback playfully! I thought maybe the cave was a reference to my references to Plato's Cave, wasn't sure about the righteous part but I was laughing when I posted my response...I constantly post stuff that people sometimes take seriously...it's simply how I am.
You might be right, this is a very angry country right now, but I really think that some areas are lost to the Dems anyway...she has done well in upstate NY and that could bode well nationally. Then again, Arnold is leading by 17 points in the polls in his reelection bid in California...who would have thunk it?

[pmayjr]

From skimming the posts so far-

I think McCain is the most electable person in this country, because no one walks the fine right-down-the-middle line like him. Yet he's a still a "Republican", which means for those idiots who don't even look at the issues, and vote "Republican" across the board, will vote for him.

I agree with Obama though. I think even more than Condi, he could get out the Black Vote. The point that outside of Illinois he's not well known, is only sorta true. He's really charismatic, he's black, and that whole retarded race where Illinois republicans brought in Alan Keyes to run against him- put that election in the limelight. Since he won in a landslide, it's only gonna help. He's black, but he's also a male, which I think gets him further than Condi believe it or not.

As for Condi- I think she'd have a shot. If she did run, it would be interesting to see how much she'd "toe Dubya's line", or would she deviate from a lot of his policies and **** ups... She might be able to get out the Black vote. But would blacks (and just people in general... any race/gender) hold her party and the man she worked for (Dubya) against her? It would be interesting to see how that would shakeout. But she is a woman, so women would vote for her in droves. She seems intelligent and strong enough. So she definately would have the most unclear result. She's got a lot going for her, but being guilty by association won't help her.

As for Hillary- hmmm... She's a woman. She's strong, she's got political experience in NY. But she's Meh. I just don't see it. I think Condi has a better chance than her. Eventhough she's the complete opposite of eveything "Dubya" stands for, she's meh...

Somer, I was in Borders last night and came across a book called "Condi vs. Hillary: The Next Great Presidential Race". Apparently, the book has been out awhile. But thought you may be interested in reading it, if you didn't already know about it. I know they are strong, respectable women, but if they were involved in a heated debate, I think I'd still be distracted and want them to make out and mudwrestle

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Personally i think McCain's time has come and gone, but we will see! I disagree about Hillary, I think if nominated she wins easily! Perhaps with Obama as VP!

Obama would never play second fiddle to Hillary. If he ran, he would destroy her in the primary. Honest people generally don't get in bed with snakes like the Clintons. A woman and a black guy couldn't get elected anyway. Hillary and Obama would both have to pick conservative white men to balance their ticket.

Hillary is going to get the nomination. The Republicans will bite their tongue and nominate McCain simply because he will destroy Hillary. Somebody that america views as a moderate will be the next president.

No more Bushes and Clintons. They are terrible people. Both families have loyalty to themselves, then their party, then america.

I would take John Edwards (somebody that does something for poor people, not just talks like the Clintons), John McCain, or Obama and be very happy.

People that support the Clintons and Bushes should have their voting rights taken away. How can people not see how phoney these people are. They are worse than Jesse Jackson or Ralph Reed. I love the Clintons carrying the bible and the Bush telling us how much of a Christian he is.

Bill Mahr had a great line, "Bush may love Jesus, but I am not so sure Jesus loves him".

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

Somer, I was in Borders last night and came across a book called "Condi vs. Hillary: The Next Great Presidential Race". Apparently, the book has been out awhile. But thought you may be interested in reading it, if you didn't already know about it. I know they are strong, respectable women, but if they were involved in a heated debate, I think I'd still be distracted and want them to make out and mudwrestle

Bellamy, you crack me up. That was funny.

I don't like McCain. I used to really, really like him and if he'd been the candidate in 2000 I was going to have a tough choice. But the past few years I've watched him bend over and take it up the patootie from Bush on every major issue-- tax cuts for the wealthy (opposed in 2001, voted for this year), religious extremism (called Falwell an "agent of intolerance" some years back, then this year he spoke at Falwell's "university"), and most importantly to me, torture (pushed through the legislation then stood by silently while Bush gutted it). And if I'd been McCain I'd never, ever have forgiven Bush for the dirty tricks pulled in the South Carolina primary. But McCain clearly wants to be President so bad that he'll do anything to get the nomination, even tacitly endorse racism and torture. And that's not okay with me. Hell, the Times printed an article about how he and Hillary have a pretty good working relationship and even played a drinking game together (he was quoted as saying she can really hold her liquor) and now he's frantically denying the evening ever happened, despite the witnesses and fellow participants ("I did not do shots with that woman."). He's scared to say, yeah, Hillary and I hung out? WTF?

I'm not opposed to politicians changing their position if it comes out of a genuinely honest place (Truman was once a racist but later became the first President to address the NAACP), but McCain isn't showing me anything other than a man who will say and do anything to be President. And that's what made Kerry such a crummy candidate. Thanks, but no thanks. To borrow from John Stewart, McCain's hopped off the Straight Talk Express and boarded the bus to Crazytown.

And Giuliani's no better-- gone from supporting the assault weapons ban to embracing it's repeal. Dear lord, will we ever get out from under the Bush cabal? What next? Kissinger in '08?

I like Hillary. She's hawkish on defense, sure, but she's generally pretty moderate on most issues, willing to engage the other side on the abortion debate (which both sides desperately need), religious but doesn't let that influence her voting, and frankly, probably smarter than just about anybody else around (I watched some of the candidate's debate last night- woman's not exactly charismatic, but she knows her stuff-- especially farming issues for upstate New Yorkers) and she works really, really hard. And I think the major issues coming up for America, really, are going to be health care and energy and I can see her being willing to tackle those issues, which I can't really picture any of the Republican candidates doing.

But you never know. It'll be an interesting '08, anyway.

[GenuineRisk]

But hey, Revolution, I like John Edwards, too. I'd be happy with him as a candidate, also. I appreciate that someone out there remembers lots of Americans aren't making ends meet.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Bellamy, you crack me up. That was funny.

I don't like McCain. I used to really, really like him and if he'd been the candidate in 2000 I was going to have a tough choice. But the past few years I've watched him bend over and take it up the patootie from Bush on every major issue-- tax cuts for the wealthy (opposed in 2001, voted for this year), religious extremism (called Falwell an "agent of intolerance" some years back, then this year he spoke at Falwell's "university"), and most importantly to me, torture (pushed through the legislation then stood by silently while Bush gutted it). And if I'd been McCain I'd never, ever have forgiven Bush for the dirty tricks pulled in the South Carolina primary. But McCain clearly wants to be President so bad that he'll do anything to get the nomination, even tacitly endorse racism and torture. And that's not okay with me. Hell, the Times printed an article about how he and Hillary have a pretty good working relationship and even played a drinking game together (he was quoted as saying she can really hold her liquor) and now he's frantically denying the evening ever happened, despite the witnesses and fellow participants ("I did not do shots with that woman."). He's scared to say, yeah, Hillary and I hung out? WTF?

I'm not opposed to politicians changing their position if it comes out of a genuinely honest place (Truman was once a racist but later became the first President to address the NAACP), but McCain isn't showing me anything other than a man who will say and do anything to be President. And that's what made Kerry such a crummy candidate. Thanks, but no thanks. To borrow from John Stewart, McCain's hopped off the Straight Talk Express and boarded the bus to Crazytown.

And Giuliani's no better-- gone from supporting the assault weapons ban to embracing it's repeal. Dear lord, will we ever get out from under the Bush cabal? What next? Kissinger in '08?

I like Hillary. She's hawkish on defense, sure, but she's generally pretty moderate on most issues, willing to engage the other side on the abortion debate (which both sides desperately need), religious but doesn't let that influence her voting, and frankly, probably smarter than just about anybody else around (I watched some of the candidate's debate last night- woman's not exactly charismatic, but she knows her stuff-- especially farming issues for upstate New Yorkers) and she works really, really hard. And I think the major issues coming up for America, really, are going to be health care and energy and I can see her being willing to tackle those issues, which I can't really picture any of the Republican candidates doing.

But you never know. It'll be an interesting '08, anyway.

All good points GR, Truman is one of my favorite Presidents, perhaps the last one to really stand out imo. He grew so much in his political career, something that usually works in reverse for most! A plain spoken man with a temper who could be amusing but with a steel will...he made what to date is the hardest decision ever made by a US President...folks can agree or disagree with it but it had to be made and he alone could make it...and he did! Since him, we've had...well, we've had politicians but not statesmen, Ronnie came close, Tricky D-ick could have been great except for a "minor" character flaw or two, Clinton had his moments and the rest, yuck! I think Hillary is the most intelligent and hard working potential candidate, I'm still not sure what exactly she did that was so bad...a strong woman supporting her husband and willing to stand behind him in the shadows...seems like she acted with class and dignity despite some personally devastating events...yet people seem to hate her???

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

But hey, Revolution, I like John Edwards, too. I'd be happy with him as a candidate, also. I appreciate that someone out there remembers lots of Americans aren't making ends meet.

The mom of Nostradmus and George Washington, the posters here, is a fundraiser and big contributor to John Edwards. When I had dinner with their family, Nostradamus told her John Edward (the guy who speaks to dead people) would be president before him. It was hilarious.

I must admit I like him because he is the only big name politican I have ever met. He came to Hofstra a couple years ago during the primary and I went with their family and met him. He is too young looking to be a President though. If his last name was Kennedy though, the idiots would come out and support him, and he actually got where he is on his own, his daddy didn't buy him his Senate seat.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Revolution

The mom of Nostradmus and George Washington, the posters here, is a fundraiser and big contributor to John Edwards. When I had dinner with their family, Nostradamus told her John Edward (the guy who speaks to dead people) would be president before him. It was hilarious.

I must admit I like him because he is the only big name politican I have ever met. He came to Hofstra a couple years ago during the primary and I went with their family and met him. He is too young looking to be a President though. If his last name was Kennedy though, the idiots would come out and support him, and he actually got where he is on his own, his daddy didn't buy him his Senate seat.

I like that he worked his way, up, too. And, although I try not to let my personal feelings affect my votes, I think it's awfully cute that he and his wife go to Wendy's for their anniversary every year, since it's where they went for their first one, being too poor then to go anywhere else.

I met Clinton once (he came to my workplace) and I must say, the man's charisma slams into you like an electric charge. I think people are born with that- I don't think you can learn it.

Somer, you've read McCullough's terrific bio of Truman, I assume? I have a very funny picture of myself from a children's theater tour I did years ago, of me in the dressing room before the show, dressed as a giant goose, reading that biography.

[randallscott35]

Studies show that women are actually harder on other women running for office. Without them behind Hillary in a big way, it is doubtful she'd have a chance. As an independent who voted for Nader in the last 2 elections, I want a viable 3rd party candidate. I'd vote for McCain or Guiliani on the Repub side. I'd vote for Edwards and a few others on the Dem side. But I really want an independent. Both parties take the people for granted.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Studies show that women are actually harder on other women running for office. Without them behind Hillary in a big way, it is doubtful she'd have a chance. As an independent who voted for Nader in the last 2 elections, I want a viable 3rd party candidate. I'd vote for McCain or Guiliani on the Repub side. I'd vote for Edwards and a few others on the Dem side. But I really want an independent. Both parties take the people for granted.

An independent would be awesome. Maybe Mike Bloomburg will do it with his money. I don't like him that much, but I would vote for any independent.

The Republicans and Democrats are the same people. Corrupt to the core. They just get their money from different interests.

[timmgirvan]

Personally, I don't think Hillary will run EVER, let alone garner the nomination! Far more charismatic and forceful leaders out there(although in the Democratic crowd that might be a misnomer) to choose from. No doubt that the domain of politics is 'dark' and I surmise most don't remain 'unscathed' while gathering support and the daunting campaigns that must be run! Would be nice to see US concentrate on Home Problems, and then go save the world,but that apparently is wishful thinking!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Revolution

An independent would be awesome. Maybe Mike Bloomburg will do it with his money. I don't like him that much, but I would vote for any independent.

The Republicans and Democrats are the same people. Corrupt to the core. They just get their money from different interests.

I like Bloomie, too, though I didn't vote for him in the last election because I was mad at him over the stupid proposed West Side Stadium here in NYC. I don't know if he wants higher office, though.

Randall, I think you're right that women are harder on each other than men are on each other (the main reason you all are still the ones in power-- if we ever get over this catfighting thing, look out... hee hee. Kidding. Kind of. No, I am. Maybe). But I think if a female candidate really goes after the issues important to women voters, she'll get the votes from them.

Boy, these days I'd like to say you're wrong about the Dems, Timm, but I'm pretty disgusted with most of them myself. For the love of Pete, just stand for something, donkeys! I desperately want them back in power in Congress because Bush's spending frenzy needs to be stopped, but it sucks to think if they win it'll be because the Republicans are that awful, not because they're that good. Argh.

Though I think they're avoiding the Iraq issue because the only "winning" strategy is bringing back the draft and upping the numbers of soldiers there, along with forking out the money to actually pay for the real cost of the war and that is political suicide. Bush has created a mess with no good solution. And it'll be left for his successor to clean up. Kind of a pattern with him...

[Revolution]

Looks like Obama may run.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...BXc&refer=home


I can't wait to see Bill Clinton on the trail for his wife telling everyone how he is more black than Obama, when it gets nasty between Hillary and Obama.

I would have a tough time if it is Obama vs McCain. They both seem to have independent streaks and that is what we need.