11 race BC not stupid enough..

[Linny]

I'd be in favor of a BC Starter Sprint so Spooky Mulder could win a "championship."

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

When you get so much brainpower in one place it's just amazing what can happen.

We had eight or nine for this year's BC Turf.....how exactly are we going to fill the additional 1 1/4 mile race?

One thing is for sure....the BC is hellbent on putting the Claiming Crown out of business. Might be time for Moschera to get back in the game.

Gasper? LOLlllllllllllllllllll

[AeWingnut]

you guys are cracking me up.

I'm afraid they are diluting the water with a 16 race BC

[tycharles01]

16 huh now they got room for a

250,000 BC Jockey's Race!!!! 250 yards Turf

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by tycharles01

16 huh now they got room for a

250,000 BC Jockey's Race!!!! 250 yards Turf

Well that would hardly be fair to the jockeys that specialize on dirt or going a route of ground. We will need at least 6 different jockey races to be fair.

[horseofcourse]

What about the 16 furlong dirt race for geldings aged 8 and above??

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

What about the 16 furlong dirt race for geldings aged 8 and above??

I'd honestly prefer they add something like that. If they are going to cheapen the BC races at least do them in ways that won't deplete the existing 11 races. I think a turf sprint is fine but can't see any other races they can add without depleting others. Make those 12 BC races, add four G3s for $250,000 and you'll have a very nice two day card. 16 BC races would be awful.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'd honestly prefer they add something like that. If they are going to cheapen the BC races at least do them in ways that won't deplete the existing 11 races. I think a turf sprint is fine but can't see any other races they can add without depleting others. Make those 12 BC races, add four G3s for $250,000 and you'll have a very nice two day card. 16 BC races would be awful.

I think even the races they added this year are too many. I like the full strong fields on the 8 race cards and even those aren't always full as someone earlier said...the turf this year.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I think even the races they added this year are too many. I like the full strong fields on the 8 race cards and even those aren't always full as someone earlier said...the turf this year.

I think that given time the three additional races would have been a big positive. Two year old turf racing would have drastically improved and we would have seen a lot of stakes winning 3yos that couldn't get ten furlongs actually stick around for the Dirt Mile at the end of the year instead of being retired mid-season. Plus we need a BC race for Sir Greeley and Wanderin Boy. Unforunately if the five additional races are added it will just be a giant cluster**** and those races won't have a chance to be established as legit BC races. They'll forever be associated with the downfall of the Breeders Cup.

[txshorns02]

i feel like the turf sprint is a good idea and i sort of like the 1 1/4 turf race is good because of some horses that couldnt make 1 1/2 mile and the mile is to short for them...idk how it will turn out...it might just make everything go down hill

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by txshorns02

i feel like the turf sprint is a good idea and i sort of like the 1 1/4 turf race is good because of some horses that couldnt make 1 1/2 mile and the mile is to short for them...idk how it will turn out...it might just make everything go down hill

Personally I don't think there is as big a difference between 8 and 12 furlongs on the turf as there is between 6 and 10 furlongs on the dirt. While I think a race in the middle will work on the dirt without causing major dilution to the other two races I don't agree that it would be the case on the turf.

Given the miserable ratings on ESPN for the Breeders' Cup, I don't see how expanding the program does anything for the sport. Creating races for all of the niches in racing only dilutes public interest and knowledge in racing. It's like when General Motors starting making full lines of cars within each division instead of just a few cars so that there was a logical progression from Chevy to Pontiac to Olds to Buick to Cadillac. We know how things worked out for GM. Too many divisions is just too complicated for attracting general interest and racing needs some general interest and needs it soon.

If anything, there should only be 4 Breeders' Cup Races: The Sprint, The Turf, the Classic and the Steeplechase and all of the races should not be age or gender restricted. Maybe that way, at least some Eclipse Awards wouldn't be based on a one to four race campaign and juveniles would be given a more appropriate foundation entering their 3 year old seasons.

[SniperSB23]

If 16 races are going to happen and there is nothing we can do then I think this is the best way to spread the 16 races:

Juv
Juv Fillies
Juv Turf
Juv Fillies Turf
Turf Sprint
Turf Mile
Turf
FM Turf Sprint
FM Turf Mile
FM Turf (12 furlongs)
Sprint
Dirt Mile
Classic
FM Sprint
FM Dirt Mile
FM Distaff (10 furlongs)

I don't especially like it but I think it is the best you can do if forced to pick 16 BC races while minimizing races stepping on each others toes. Do we really need a champion female turf sprinter? No. But I'd rather have that race on a 16 race BC program than a race that will steal more horses from another race on the card.

[blackthroatedwind]

The real question is what are the qualifications of new NTRA head Greg Avioli and why is he being given free rein here. The whole thing smacks of some plot hatched by breeders to falsely inflate the value of stallions and broodmares. Who they are fooling, however, I do not know. Perhaps any new buyers getting into the game. But, the simple fact is there are already too many Grade 1 races and all of these have been watered down and savaged by the BC races already. Why creating more, and unnecessary, races somehow elevates the game is beyond me. Where exactly are all the supposed quality horses to fill these races going to come from?

One thing I have gleaned from watching past stakes races on Youtube is how much more legitimate the paces were in those days. Nowadays it seems a 48 half in any distance race, save the Derby and BC races, is borderline contentious. This is undoubtably due to the relative lack of competition in many of these races. As we pile on more and more BC races, and surely dilute the quality of each event, soon those races will be non-competitive as well.

It is high time that racing had someone in a leadership role that didn't have a hidden agenda being fed by those without the true interests of fans in mind. It is also time that somewhere in racing someone with a voice asks some of these questions.....before it is too late. Who is speaking for us?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The real question is what are the qualifications of new NTRA head Greg Avioli and why is he being given free rein here. The whole thing smacks of some plot hatched by breeders to falsely inflate the value of stallions and broodmares. Who they are fooling, however, I do not know. Perhaps any new buyers getting into the game. But, the simple fact is there are already too many Grade 1 races and all of these have been watered down and savaged by the BC races already. Why creating more, and unnecessary, races somehow elevates the game is beyond me. Where exactly are all the supposed quality horses to fill these races going to come from?

One thing I have gleaned from watching past stakes races on Youtube is how much more legitimate the paces were in those days. Nowadays it seems a 48 half in any distance race, save the Derby and BC races, is borderline contentious. This is undoubtably due to the relative lack of competition in many of these races. As we pile on more and more BC races, and surely dilute the quality of each event, soon those races will be non-competitive as well.

It is high time that racing had someone in a leadership role that didn't have a hidden agenda being fed by those without the true interests of fans in mind. It is also time that somewhere in racing someone with a voice asks some of these questions.....before it is too late. Who is speaking for us?

Well said. As usual, nobody is looking out for bettors.

This pace thing is something you rarely hear talked about. I think horses are going slower for a few reasons. One, as you say, is the lack of competition. The other is that the breeding is so sprint oriented these days, it is the only way the horses can get around the track respectably.

It used to be that a fast pace pretty much guaranteed a fast final time in top class competition. This isn't really so anymore. In fact, it is just the opposite.

1st order of business get rid of all two year old races.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

1st order of business get rid of all two year old races.

I agree! How about throwing in a quarter horse race or two. And one buggy one too!

[Holland Hacker]

Some times I like to look at things from a different perspective.

What would happen if they ran a "Breeders Cup" race and no body bet on it? Do you think the Breeders Cup Limited would continue the lunacy of adding races?

It seems like everyone here is against the idea of adding races to the BC lineup, what is making you place a wager on them? If nobody wagered on them I bet they would be dropped pretty quickly.

Another possibility is for other tracks to compete with the Breeders Cup. What if another track hosted their own "Festival of Racing" and competed with the BC races. It seems like all of the tracks are afraid of the BC and are rearranging their schedule to avoid conflicts with the BC. Is the Breeeders Cup the only racing permitted at the end of October? Or what if New York went back to their traditional fall racing there certaintly was some great racing in NY in the Fall before the BC.

Remember Seattle Slew & Affirmed's battle in the the Marlboro Cup and the Jockey Club Gold Cup in '18 or Affirmed and Spectacular Bid in the JCGC in '79. Now they were horse races.

Just my two cents.

[Travis Stone]

I think there is legitimate concern regarding the added races, and the proposal of additional races. I think racing should consider a point in time when "enough is enough" and you then focus on your existing product - improving it and making it better.

I also feel this is representative of a larger issue: the general stakes structure in our nation. As stated, there are too many grade one races and the product has been severely dilluted.

I'm a huge proponent of reversed grading. Grade the race after it's carded - not after it's been run - but after the field has been assembled. I think that'd make for a very interesting dynamic at the entry box.