2013-2014 NBA Season

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

According to PG1985 only the Finals and championships count. He was one of the chief reasons that OKC floundered in the Finals. His games 3 and 4 were awful.

Interestingly during the playoffs that year his best games were all in losses.

OKC floundered because they ran into a better team. A team with 2 first ballot Hall of Famers, you and I both agree Bosh will be, and Ray Allen is first ballot. Plus Lebron is the best ever. They just played a better team. It was not Hardens fault.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Conrad

Chris Paul

I suggested this to a big CP fan friend of mine and was basically yelled at.
He's fantastic and all that, but is he the one to lead a team to the title?
I am beginning to seriously doubt it.

Based on what exactly? New Orleans and the Clippers rich tradition of winning and his failure to singlehandedly catapult them into model organzations like San Antonio and Miami?

You think if we subbed him for Tony Parker that SA doesnt win a few of those titles?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

According to PG1985 only the Finals and championships count. He was one of the chief reasons that OKC floundered in the Finals. His games 3 and 4 were awful.

Interestingly during the playoffs that year his best games were all in losses.

Most of his best games with the Rockets seem to come in losses as well. He is very selfish in close games, and aside from his defense, it is his biggest shortcoming.

The thought that championships are the only way to measure someone historically is the single dumbest thing in sports.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

But I never called him great. I said he was an OK defender, OK rebounder and super clutch.

How does he compare to Ewing and Barkley...you know, the selfish scorers with no rings you brought up earlier?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

According to PG1985 only the Finals and championships count. He was one of the chief reasons that OKC floundered in the Finals. His games 3 and 4 were awful.

Interestingly during the playoffs that year his best games were all in losses.

People forget how close all those games were until Game 5. Harden killed the Thunder in 3 and 4. Average games by him and they probably win one or both. Pretty sure he was bad in the Game 1 too, and then had the nerve to complain about his playing time and number of shots in the locker room after a victory. He didn't make many friends that day.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

OKC floundered because they ran into a better team. A team with 2 first ballot Hall of Famers, you and I both agree Bosh will be, and Ray Allen is first ballot. Plus Lebron is the best ever. They just played a better team. It was not Hardens fault.

Ray Allen wasn't on that team.

See my post to Chuck. People act like Miami steamrolled OKC, when that is very far from the truth.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

How does he compare to Ewing and Barkley...you know, the selfish scorers with no rings you brought up earlier?

I brought them up in comparision to Melo and I also said thats fine. Nothing wrong with being an all time great regular season guy.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Ray Allen wasn't on that team.

See my post to Chuck. People act like Miami steamrolled OKC, when that is very far from the truth.

Of course they didnt steamroll them OKC won game 1. Miami was the better team though, no? Maybe not much better, but Lebron was the X factor.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Based on what exactly? New Orleans and the Clippers rich tradition of winning and his failure to singlehandedly catapult them into model organzations like San Antonio and Miami?

You think if we subbed him for Tony Parker that SA doesnt win a few of those titles?

I'm obviously biased, but every time OKC meets the Clippers, Westbrook usually outplays Paul, or at the least matches him. So it gets old listening to how great Chris Paul is to be honest. Paul is obviously one of the top players in the league, I just don't think he is one of the 3 or 4 best like a lot of people claim.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Honestly, I don't know. Rivers won with three great players in their prime. Does that make him a great coach? Again, I don't know. For the most part players make coaches. Are the Clippers any better this year than last? Doesn't look that way to me, but that could change come April/May.

Beside the point though. Paul used his influence and the threat of leaving to get Del Negro fired, that is all I was saying.

Rivers is a good coach. Del Negro is not. Pretty simple.

Del Negro made so many obvious errors with substitutions and time outs that it is impossible to believe that there wasnt a lot missed that we didnt see. Griffin was as much of the reason they brought in Rivers as Paul. Basically Griffin had stopped listening to Del negro. VDN's playoff record is 10-19.


Jesus what games do you guys watch? Doc Rivers isnt a better coach than Del Negro? Robery Horry is better than Carmello Anthony? Chris Paul is incapable of winning a championship?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Of course they didnt steamroll them OKC won game 1. Miami was the better team though, no? Maybe not much better, but Lebron was the X factor.

Lebron was Lebron, but what did the Thunder in was all the role players that seemingly could not miss a 3. Miller, Battier, Chalmers...

Like I said, every game except G5 came right down to the wire, and in games 3/4 Harden shot like 20%.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Rivers is also overrated as a coach. He had 3 superstars. I always hear people calling him the best coach in the NBA. Is he better then Pop? Jeff Van Gundy was a better coach then Doc IMO.

Who wins with bad players? Well other than Jeff Hornachek

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Fine. Melo is a champion and the best regular season player ever.

No one is saying that but he clearly is a great player.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Rivers is a good coach. Del Negro is not. Pretty simple.

He is, but if they finish the season with about the same record and get bounced in the 1st round again, what does it matter?

I don't like players lobbying for new coaches, just old school I guess. Blake Griffin lobbying for a new coach is hilarious...dude has several flaws in his game that he hasn't improved much on. He should start there.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm obviously biased, but every time OKC meets the Clippers, Westbrook usually outplays Paul, or at the least matches him. So it gets old listening to how great Chris Paul is to be honest. Paul is obviously one of the top players in the league, I just don't think he is one of the 3 or 4 best like a lot of people claim.

I prefer Westbrook and Curry all day over Paul. I like those athletic combo guys.
Russell has to get himself healthy. He is a guy I hated, but am now sold on. He is a super player.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The thought that championships are the only way to measure someone historically is the single dumbest thing in sports.

It all started with Wilt and Russell. Russell was a great, great player but without the genius of Red Auerbach no one in 2014 thinks he was better than Wilt. Lot of those Celtics are in the hall of fame because they played on Boston and not Detroit or Cincinnati

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

OKC floundered because they ran into a better team. A team with 2 first ballot Hall of Famers, you and I both agree Bosh will be, and Ray Allen is first ballot. Plus Lebron is the best ever. They just played a better team. It was not Hardens fault.

Miami was the better team but in 3 of the 5 games Harden played poorly.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I brought them up in comparision to Melo and I also said thats fine. Nothing wrong with being an all time great regular season guy.

How about Gary Payton? Did winning a ring with the Heat legitimize him as a great player? I just don't think you can categorize players as great, just because they won a championship. Gary Payton was great with or without a ring.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who wins with bad players? Well other than Jeff Hornachek

What he's doing out there in Phoenix is really remarkable. It's going to be really tough to keep it up now with Bledsoe gone, but the Suns and their fans should be thrilled with the way that team plays...hardest playing team in the league.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I brought them up in comparision to Melo and I also said thats fine. Nothing wrong with being an all time great regular season guy.

Charles Barkley was a great player in the playoffs. He had some monstrous post seasons.