Cigar was the best horse in the last 30 years

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Rankings like this are by nature a little arbitrary so I usually don't like to say something like "You are wrong" in a discussion like this. But I will make an exception in this case. You are wrong.
I would like for you to explain to me how horses like Affirmed, Spectacular Bid, Sunday Silence, etc. etc. etc. are "not even close" to being as good as the two you mentioned. I mean I know those three aren't in the same league as the likes of Birdstone and Giacomo, but they were pretty good.

It was a joke... If I was inept enough to believe what I posted, Id kill myself.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by smuthg

The last 30 years picks up Slew, Affirmed, and the Bid. Love Cigar, but don't think he could run with that crew...

I think there is a decent argument that Cigar was the best horse since the inception of the Breeders' Cup and a pretty strong argument that he's in the Top 5 since then.

.......in 1988 alysheba would have bitch slapped him.....hard.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

It was a joke... If I was inept enough to believe what I posted, Id kill myself.

Oh....well in that case....your dry sense of humor is appreciated.

[Echo Farm]

Speakiing of Skip Away, his Florida Derby saddle cloth is on eBay

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Echo Farm

Speakiing of Skip Away, his Florida Derby saddle cloth is on eBay

$3500??? holy smokes

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Echo Farm

Speakiing of Skip Away, his Florida Derby saddle cloth is on eBay

Speaking of Skip Away, the result of probably the best mare he was ever booked to (Lady's Secret) finally broke his maiden at 5, after never hitting the board in 7 previous tries, in the 8th at Del Mar. Unfortunately, despite being among the top 5 fillies of all time she was never much of a producer. Only 3 of her offspring have ever even won a race in the US.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by philcski

Speaking of Skip Away, the result of probably the best mare he was ever booked to (Lady's Secret) finally broke his maiden at 5, after never hitting the board in 7 previous tries, in the 8th at Del Mar. Unfortunately, despite being among the top 5 fillies of all time she was never much of a producer. Only 3 of her offspring have ever even won a race in the US.

much the same could be said about winning colors and open mind.

is there any connection between the 3?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

much the same could be said about winning colors and open mind.

is there any connection between the 3?

hmmmmm....

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

much the same could be said about winning colors and open mind.

is there any connection between the 3?

Originally Posted by Sightseek

hmmmmm....

I have no idea, other than several of their offspring have been sent to Japan. What am I missing?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

I have no idea, other than several of their offspring have been sent to Japan. What am I missing?

I know you can figure out there connection!



(are we still doing Sergio's Sunday night because I'll make reservations)

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I know you can figure out there connection!



(are we still doing Sergio's Sunday night because I'll make reservations)

they were all sired by horses more known for turf!! sorta?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I know you can figure out there connection!



(are we still doing Sergio's Sunday night because I'll make reservations)

Let me talk to the one in charge!
I'm stumped!

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

they were all sired by horses more known for turf!! sorta?

Well, Caro for sure (Cozzene, With Approval, Crystal Palace, etc.) the others? I never thought of Sec or Deputy Minister as turf sires.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Is it they were all trained by the same person?

Yes... Sightseek keyed me in. I'm so dumb.

D. WAYNE LUKAS was the trainer of all three.

[cowgirlintexas]

Originally Posted by philcski

Yes... Sightseek keyed me in. I'm so dumb.

D. WAYNE LUKAS was the trainer of all three.

Gee.. I wonder if all the steroids that he gave them could of had something to do with it....

[cowgirlintexas]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Agreed that comparing to Cigar to 70's or other superstars may be apples and oranges, but how do you think horse racing gets new fans? How did you get hooked? Parents? growing up near a track? There are many ways to get fresh blood in what can be a difficult "inner circle" to navigate and I really think that superstars, or preceived superstars, are a big part of it.

I don't think he is "hooked"..Personally I think he just like to being a world class Dumb Ass...lol

[philcski]

Digging deeper, because I've got nothing better to do, here's Lukas' champion fillies results as producers:

Landaluce: (none, died at 2)
Althea: nothing of note. Best was Aurora- listed SW
Life's Magic: nothing of note. Best is Simon Pure- an allowance winner
Family Style: 1 START out of 5 foals
Lady's Secret: nothing of note, only 3 US winners
North Sider: nothing of note, best was 2-15 Ruby My Dear
Sacahuista: best was Ekraar, who won an Italian G1
Open Mind: 2 foals, a combined 4-48
Winning Colors: nothing of note in the US
Flanders: Surfside, who was outstanding, and that's about it
Golden Attraction: nothing of note, 5 to start, 4 winners, but no stakes winners
Serena's Song: Grand Reward, Sophisticat, Harlington, and Serena's Tune all won graded stakes

So other than Serena's Song, not much out of an incredibly good group of fillies.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Riot

Afleet Alex, Funny Cide, Barbaro - horse racing is suddenly becoming very, very cool again.

If the sport would only take advantage of the groundswell, and get some readily accessible major network TV deals at this point in time!

They ignored TV in the 1950's, and eventually lost out to football, and now NASCAR.

Edit: and I just remembered ... if the Hennigan brothers can indeed get their "First Saturday in May" movie on TV next year the week before the Derby - on a station most people will stumble across - wow!

Funny that those three are the ones u mentioned. Barbaro never ran past the second week in May. Alex never ran past the first week in June. Smarty Jones was another very popular one and he also never ran past the first week in June. The sport can't take advantage of any groundswell because the swell flattens out before it can mount to anything. There won't be any major network TV deals either. Look how promising the Travers looked after the Belmont. Imagine that u are a network exec and u are promoting the Travers as a matchup of the three TC winners plus Any Given Saturday. Imagine how u would have felt when they ran the race with only one of the four. Back in the day, when horses actually raced, u could do something like that. Not in today's game. More often than not, u will end up looking like a fool for promoting a horse that doesn't show up.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by cowgirlintexas

Gee.. I wonder if all the steroids that he gave them could of had something to do with it....

Perfect line of questioning in a thread about Cigar... Again, love Cigar, but to think he is naturally sterile is almost as crazy as saying he's not one of the best horses in the last 25 years...

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by philcski

Digging deeper, because I've got nothing better to do, here's Lukas' champion fillies results as producers:

Landaluce: (none, died at 2)
Althea: nothing of note. Best was Aurora- listed SW
Life's Magic: nothing of note. Best is Simon Pure- an allowance winner
Family Style: 1 START out of 5 foals
Lady's Secret: nothing of note, only 3 US winners
North Sider: nothing of note, best was 2-15 Ruby My Dear
Sacahuista: best was Ekraar, who won an Italian G1
Open Mind: 2 foals, a combined 4-48
Winning Colors: nothing of note in the US
Flanders: Surfside, who was outstanding, and that's about it
Golden Attraction: nothing of note, 5 to start, 4 winners, but no stakes winners
Serena's Song: Grand Reward, Sophisticat, Harlington, and Serena's Tune all won graded stakes

So other than Serena's Song, not much out of an incredibly good group of fillies.

I've always felt that the most successful race mares don't become good producers because of all the things that are pumped into their systems to get them to the top racing levels. I think this list just goes to show how special a filly Serena's Song really was. Same for Personal Ensign.

[King Glorious]

If Cigar is the best horse of the last 30 years, I must have been watching a different sport than thoroughbred horse racing. Most accomplished? That I could go with. But best? Not even close. In no order and off the top of my head, who'd I'd place ahead of him:

Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Java Gold, Alysheba, Lost Code, King Glorious, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Holy Bull, Gentlemen, Lammtarra, Candy Ride, Ghostzapper, Point Given, Smarty Jones, Discreet Cat, Bernardini, Giant's Causeway