What Kind of Hit Will Racing Take If Barbaro Dies?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

there will be zero loss of fan base / wagering $$$ because of barbaro...... the people who will never watch another horse race again are the folks who come outta the woodwork once a year for the derby.

p.s i am not brushing aside the heartbreaking barbaro tragedy...... he was my favorite horse since 1987 and the preakness was a punch in the gut for me.

Agree with Alysheba (who shares one of my all-time favorite horses). In fact, I'll go one further. Regardless of what happens to Barbaro from here out, the result will be a net increase in horseracing's fan base. Racing hasn't had this kind of exposure in decades, and much of it has been on the positive aspects of the care and love the stars receive. If Barbaro were to be put down tomorrow, his death would be a 1-2 day story whose impact was much softened by the great effort that went into saving him.

The bottom line is that year-to-year, horseracing is barely on the radar of even avid sportsfans. I doubt if 1% of the people at a World Series game or a Super Bowl would recognize the name Ghostzapper. And fewer still would recognize St Liam. So much for our last two HOY's. Of course, those already in the game DO recognize those names. But those in the game see breakdowns on a regular basis. In the current environment, a story like Barbaro's, where compassion and heart are the main ingredients, will probably have a (small) net positive impact on horseracing.

--Dunbar

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

World War III has started... and I think that'll get a lot more coverage.

Ruffian and Go For Wand also happened on national TV ... to much bigger audiences ... and they had zero short-term and long-term impact.

The Barbaro story? It'll be debated here forever. To the general public ... it'll be fifteen minutes ... and out.

Is this dude serious?

[westcoastinvader]

Jumping in late.....

Yes, this may be 15 minutes and out. That doesn't mean everything in the long term, though.

Ruffian was 15 minutes and out, too. But not among those who paid attention and cared.

And she's come back in notice, stronger than ever. It just took awhile.

I would suspect most all here are closet animal and horse lovers, whether they would admit it, or not. Even the pure "action" crowd, of which I am occasionally one.

I'm not a card carrying PETA member, but I sure as heck want good treatment of all animals whenever possible.

Thoroughbreds love to run. I've seen them perk up in the paddock when some get the late realization jolt of the job they've got to do....and want to do.

And, I've seen 'em prance and dance after a race with a "look at me" attitude.... looking into the stretch trackside fans after a 6th place finish.

All that said, I still hold the starter and Pimlico and maybe the television network liable for the decision to put Barbaro back in the gate so quickly after he broke through.

I won't let that one die.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by westcoastinvader

Jumping in late.....

Yes, this may be 15 minutes and out. That doesn't mean everything in the long term, though.

Ruffian was 15 minutes and out, too. But not among those who paid attention and cared.

And she's come back in notice, stronger than ever. It just took awhile.

I would suspect most all here are closet animal and horse lovers, whether they would admit it, or not. Even the pure "action" crowd, of which I am occasionally one.

I'm not a card carrying PETA member, but I sure as heck want good treatment of all animals whenever possible.

Thoroughbreds love to run. I've seen them perk up in the paddock when some get the late realization jolt of the job they've got to do....and want to do.

And, I've seen 'em prance and dance after a race with a "look at me" attitude.... looking into the stretch trackside fans after a 6th place finish.

All that said, I still hold the starter and Pimlico and maybe the television network liable for the decision to put Barbaro back in the gate so quickly after he broke through.

I won't let that one die.

you won't let that die? an incident that had nothing to do with his subsequent injury? why is it you won't let it go? i guess it has to do with someone wanting an explanation as to why something occurred, freak accident not being good enough. richardson said the gate had nothing to do with barbaro taking a bad step and breaking down, why isn't that good enough for you?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Real ****ty of you to use Barbaro as an advertisement for synthetic tracks. Seems as though you are the one with vested interests. Change is great, I welcome change, but I just feel it's a little early to claim polytrack as the end all be all. Horses break down on it too, so it obviously has it's faults as well. Maybe a logical approach is that horses are going to break down, that's the grim truth. Maybe lets try and improve the breed, so as they aren't so fragile.

BINGO BINGO BINGO...

It's the people that INSIST upon breeding to unsound horses (and they pay quite the fee for it too) that are causing these kinds of problems. Thoroughbreds are more fragile than they used to be and IMO it's because they are inbred all to hell with generations of unsound, poorly conformed horses. It's no wonder...

It is an interesting thread, but I wouldn't go putting the horse in the ground yet. This one is a fighter.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

lol

maybe highways should be paved with the stuff. think of the possibilities. matter of fact, i think i'll put it in my yard, to heck with mowing!

Great idea ...

... let's repave and re-ceiling The Big Dig with polytrack ...

... and rename it The Big Sumitas.

Originally Posted by randallscott35

BB, you are dead wrong here. The Ruffian incident caused some fans to go away forever. In fact, it ushered in a decline in racing. The impact was severe.

There's not a shred of evidence for that.

Ruffian's death was immediately followed by the astounding exploits of Forego, Seattle Slew, Affirmed/Alydar, and Spectacular Bid. The late 1970's were the Glory Days for thoroughbred racing.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

you won't let that die? an incident that had nothing to do with his subsequent injury? why is it you won't let it go? i guess it has to do with someone wanting an explanation as to why something occurred, freak accident not being good enough. richardson said the gate had nothing to do with barbaro taking a bad step and breaking down, why isn't that good enough for you?

Historical footnote ...

The great champion Sword Dancer broke through the gate three times in his career ... and went on to win all three of those races ... and retired perfectly sound after 39 starts.

Unless a horse is actually injured in the process ... breaking through the gate means absolutely nothing.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Historical footnote ...

The great champion Sword Dancer broke through the gate three times in his career ... and went on to win all three of those races ... and retired perfectly sound after 39 starts.

Unless a horse is actually injured in the process ... breaking through the gate means absolutely nothing.

For me, I accept that he wasn't injured in the gate like that, but I DO believe they should have taken a little more time in evaluating the horse before throwing him back in the gate like that. JMO. I think it was mere coincidence that he broke down the second time out of the gate, but they should have checked him more thoroughly because if they had, there wouldn't be as much controversy regarding it...

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

For me, I accept that he wasn't injured in the gate like that, but I DO believe they should have taken a little more time in evaluating the horse before throwing him back in the gate like that. JMO. I think it was mere coincidence that he broke down the second time out of the gate, but they should have checked him more thoroughly because if they had, there wouldn't be as much controversy regarding it...

Very astute observation.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

For me, I accept that he wasn't injured in the gate like that, but I DO believe they should have taken a little more time in evaluating the horse before throwing him back in the gate like that. JMO. I think it was mere coincidence that he broke down the second time out of the gate, but they should have checked him more thoroughly because if they had, there wouldn't be as much controversy regarding it...

he WAS checked out!!

"The stewards always ask me to look at them (when they break through the gate)," said Zipf, a state veterinarian since 1965 and chief veterinarian for the last 20 years.

"I went through the stall he was in and followed him back around. Once he was gathered up (by an outrider) and turned around, the first thing I looked for was head trauma or abrasions or cuts. I then walked behind him as he trotted back to make sure, leg-wise that there was no problem. I could see nothing that would insult his performance; saw no problems with his head or legs. I'm certain there was nothing that would predispose to the injury that occurred in the race."

Zipf has heard the speculation that Barbaro's injury may have occurred in the gate and feels it is important for the racing public to know safeguards were taken. "We want people to know the circumstances," he said, "so we can eliminate speculation that isn't warranted. I don't want there to be any gray areas about what we do."

that's from bloodhorse. also read elsewhere the vet said it may have appeared to tv viewers that he was rushed back, but that wasn't the case. he checked him out just like any other horse who breaks thru.

[sumitas]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite
World War III has started... and I think that'll get a lot more coverage.

Ruffian and Go For Wand also happened on national TV ... to much bigger audiences ... and they had zero short-term and long-term impact.

The Barbaro story? It'll be debated here forever. To the general public ... it'll be fifteen minutes ... and out.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Is this dude serious?

Yeeah, a far out dude. what planet is he from ?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

he WAS checked out!!

"The stewards always ask me to look at them (when they break through the gate)," said Zipf, a state veterinarian since 1965 and chief veterinarian for the last 20 years.

"I went through the stall he was in and followed him back around. Once he was gathered up (by an outrider) and turned around, the first thing I looked for was head trauma or abrasions or cuts. I then walked behind him as he trotted back to make sure, leg-wise that there was no problem. I could see nothing that would insult his performance; saw no problems with his head or legs. I'm certain there was nothing that would predispose to the injury that occurred in the race."

Zipf has heard the speculation that Barbaro's injury may have occurred in the gate and feels it is important for the racing public to know safeguards were taken. "We want people to know the circumstances," he said, "so we can eliminate speculation that isn't warranted. I don't want there to be any gray areas about what we do."

that's from bloodhorse. also read elsewhere the vet said it may have appeared to tv viewers that he was rushed back, but that wasn't the case. he checked him out just like any other horse who breaks thru.

Like I said, I thought he should have been checked more THOROUGHLY. That is my opinion. And like I said before, I DO NOT think that his breakthrough the first time caused the accident. I can understand why some people would be led to think that though.

[Danzig]

if there is no connection between his breaking thru the gate and than his injury, why the need to be checked more thoroughly? how thoroughly? if they followed standard practice, why is there still something wrong with what they did? i'm sorry if you think i'm hounding you, but i just don't get the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

if there is no connection between his breaking thru the gate and than his injury, why the need to be checked more thoroughly? how thoroughly? if they followed standard practice, why is there still something wrong with what they did? i'm sorry if you think i'm hounding you, but i just don't get the whole thing.

Cajun is saying that some people are redboarding the issue ... going back and saying that the gate breakthrough was connected to the ankle injury.

If the track vet and starter crew had spent more than 30 seconds ... say 60 seconds ... examining Barbaro ... maybe these nutcase redboarders would have less to say ... maybe.

The vet did a normal examination ... but Cajun is saying because of the high visibility of the situation ... maybe the exam could have been extra-normal ... just to vitiate post-race conspiracy theories.

[Danzig]

but you can't judge what happened THEN (the gate and subsequent check out by the vet) by what we know happened after. it's a shame that some will go back and point at that incident as the pivotal moment. esp since it isn't.
and yes, much like pearl harbor 'historians' who say by using all the info collected AFTER the bombing, and knowing the japanese did indeed bomb us and destroy much of our fleet, and by using tremendous HIND sight that we 'SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ALL ALONG' there will be those who say that the gate crew/pimlico/magna rushed the job....but they'll still be incorrect.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

but you can't judge what happened THEN (the gate and subsequent check out by the vet) by what we know happened after. it's a shame that some will go back and point at that incident as the pivotal moment. esp since it isn't.
and yes, much like pearl harbor 'historians' who say by using all the info collected AFTER the bombing, and knowing the japanese did indeed bomb us and destroy much of our fleet, and by using tremendous HIND sight that we 'SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ALL ALONG' there will be those who say that the gate crew/pimlico/magna rushed the job....but they'll still be incorrect.

Precisely.

[sumitas]

The Barbaro tragedy and the Arlington scandal are exposing this game for the real problems that exist. That is the welfare of the horse does not matter when it comes to the business of the tracks.

And this is just not acceptable and must be stopped.

Horse racing from the birth of a horse to the death of a horse is not very humane. The good horses are taken care, but are treated like prisoners. Go to any breeding farm and you see a horse in a stall that is like 10x10. The horse it let out for sex and maybe 1 hour of exercise a day in the pasture. The horse is treated like a prisoner. The racing aspect is even worse, you pump the horse full of drugs, barely feed it, put a person on its back and whip it so it can cross the finish line 1st. Horse racing isnt for the horse, it is for a human's pleasure. Everyone on this board love horses and there is no disputing that. However, would some of us still love the horses if there wasnt racing involved. Would we even care about horses if someone didnt introduce us to horse wagering? For me the answer is yes. I struggle with this all the time. If I love something, I want the best for them. I think horses love to race and compete. I really believe there is an inate characteristic in horses to compete. But, I don't think horses appreciate having their testicles cut off, being whipped, being drugged and only eating the amount that keeps them best fit. I would love to see the day where whips are out-lawed in horse racing, I would love to see the day where horses can roam freely in the pasture instead of being locked up in a small stall. Take the money and gambling out of horse racing and we would see how many people trule love horses.