Pick your candidate

[somerfrost]

[quote=brianwspencer]Says the man who two posts back used the terms "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."

"Pro-abortion" is perhaps the single most wild and fallacious of all of the abortion-related slogans.

The rest is an old song and dance that we've already been over that I don't particularly feel like slogging my way through again. It's tiresome (as I'm sure it is for anti-choicers too), because it's really impossible to have any legitimate, rational debate with (not necessarily you, but the general composite anti-choicer) the type who yammers their ass off about protecting life while loving the death penalty, loving war, and creaming their pants over torture more than any other group of people in this country.

Pro-life my ass.[

I don't disagree that it seems that most folks on the so-called "christian right" tend to be anti-abortion, pro-war and pro-death penalty while finding no issue with torture...that has NOTHING to do with the issue...don't damn the issue because certain folks tend to take a specific stand. They may well be against freedom for women...you'll have to take that up with them. I can only speak for myself...I'm not christian, don't support war, torture or the death penalty and certainly don't, as a feminist, want to in any way restrict a woman's freedom to make decisions. You still are focusing on the messenger and not the message!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I don't disagree that it seems that most folks on the so-called "christian right" tend to be anti-abortion, pro-war and pro-death penalty while finding no issue with torture...that has NOTHING to do with the issue...don't damn the issue because certain folks tend to take a specific stand. They may well be against freedom for women...you'll have to take that up with them. I can only speak for myself...I'm not christian, don't support war, torture or the death penalty and certainly don't, as a feminist, want to in any way restrict a woman's freedom to make decisions. You still are focusing on the messenger and not the message!

Well on this tangent, the messenger is of the utmost importance. In the bigger picture of what I talked about in my last post, the people saying it are absolutely to be focused on.

Because if their entire point is a claim of concern for life when talking about whatever-you-want-to-call-it at conception, yet they simultaneously show a flagrant disregard for life (and in some ways, seem to even take joy in actively supporting the destruction of life) in so many other areas -- it's not really out of bounds to come to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with life, and everything to do with controlling women.

Perhaps your position on the subject is more noble than those disingenuous folks I've just finished describing (and it comes from a different place...one I don't agree with, but the premise is more noble), but sadly for you -- your lot is cast with them. And as long as they keep acting like bonafide, anti-woman degenerates, your points all get lost in translation.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

This is an issue driven by belief, and denying the validity of another's beliefs is what causes most of the world's problems.

I don't agree at all.Most of the world's problems are caused by people imposing(or wanting to impose) their beliefs on those who don't share them.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I don't agree at all.Most of the world's problems are caused by people imposing(or wanting to impose) their beliefs on those who don't share them.

We are saying the same thing, aren't we? If folks really respected the views of others, they wouldn't have a need to impose their beliefs on them!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well on this tangent, the messenger is of the utmost importance. In the bigger picture of what I talked about in my last post, the people saying it are absolutely to be focused on.

Because if their entire point is a claim of concern for life when talking about whatever-you-want-to-call-it at conception, yet they simultaneously show a flagrant disregard for life (and in some ways, seem to even take joy in actively supporting the destruction of life) in so many other areas -- it's not really out of bounds to come to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with life, and everything to do with controlling women.

Perhaps your position on the subject is more noble than those disingenuous folks I've just finished describing (and it comes from a different place...one I don't agree with, but the premise is more noble), but sadly for you -- your lot is cast with them. And as long as they keep acting like bonafide, anti-woman degenerates, your points all get lost in translation.

Sadly, I fear you are right...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I think people need to be very specific when they ask a question like the N Dame fan asked.I'll respond to it as a question(although he may meant it to be a statement.) With regard to the abortion question,there are 2 types of life.Most people find atleast one type to be precious.If you have 2 people of opposite sex,then you have potential life.There are sperm in him,and eggs in her.If they put sperm n' egg together,then what do they have? To me,this is another form of potential life.I would imagine you're Catholic,and have been taught that this package is "life." I don't believe it is life.Just as I don't believe (2 days after a person dies) a dead body is life.When the embryo becomes something that has a way to feel stimuli(pain etc.,) then it is actual life(to me.)That's precious to me.The package up to that point isn't (to me)alive yet.So,I am not for choosing to end life.I just will never agree with you that an embryo is actual life(until it can feel something,it is potential life.)So,I am for women having the right to end a pregnancy before this stage.If you look at this intellectually,then you will have an opinion when life is actual,and when it is "potential." If you let your religion decide it for you,then you don't have to think(you just react.)

maybe you misread me here, or in the past. i'm pro choice. what i meant is that no one is pro death, altho some pro lifers would argue that if one is pro choice, one must be pro death. that's the kind of thing people tend to want to cling to, titles. black or white, if you aren't this then you must be that.
as for my religion, i was raised catholic, but i don't consider myself to be one (altho some say once a catholic, always so) and i do not attend any church, and haven't in years.

[The Bid]

I agree with Brian Spencer on the abortion issue.

Rudy for me

[golfer]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I agree with Brian Spencer on the abortion issue.

Rudy for me

Bid, you may want to read this from the NY Times...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...50C0A962958260

The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."

"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum, sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

maybe you misread me here, or in the past. i'm pro choice. what i meant is that no one is pro death, altho some pro lifers would argue that if one is pro choice, one must be pro death. that's the kind of thing people tend to want to cling to, titles. black or white, if you aren't this then you must be that.
as for my religion, i was raised catholic, but i don't consider myself to be one (altho some say once a catholic, always so) and i do not attend any church, and haven't in years.

No,I was responding to Notre Dame guy's question.Was just adding to your post,but would have been more clear to use his post.

[hi_im_god]

i love the internet.

all this smoke and heat off a single line by a guy who couldn't hit water if he fell off a boat.

i think just the fact that ndguy thinks it's the right position should give you pause somer.

when has he ever been right?

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i love the internet.

all this smoke and heat off a single line by a guy who couldn't hit water if he fell off a boat.

i think just the fact that ndguy thinks it's the right position should give you pause somer.

when has he ever been right?

say what you want about me, being pro-life is something I have been passionate about since I was a freshman in high school. I have volunteered and taken part in many pro-life rallys, and the thought of abortion makes me sick. I have eight nieces and nephews, and thinking about something as terrible as abortion is sad.

Here is a video that you guys can view if you would like, it is an abortion taking place 11 weeks into the pregnancy, and is hard to watch, but I think could have the ability to change some peoples opinion. As the instrument is being put in to poke the baby and take its life, you can see the baby squirming to get away and doing anything in its power to save itself from the harm of the instrument. This is murder plain and simple.

http://www.silentscream.org/video/SS...ntSc_Eng_3.mov

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

We are saying the same thing, aren't we? If folks really respected the views of others, they wouldn't have a need to impose their beliefs on them!

NO,IT'S NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL.To respect somebody else's view on something means I accept that you(Somer)are gunna AVOID/REJECT abortion in yourlife.It has zero,nada,no impact at all on how I live my life.See,the problem is that people want to force others totake on beliefs.If I change a belief,it should be because I looked at all the information on something,and come to a conclusion.Respecting your view on something doesn't include me taking on your view.So,most of the problems in the world aren't due to people not respecting others views.The problems are due to people feeling so strongly about their views that they try to impose their views on others.For instance,I don't have a problem with Moslems that don't drink or gamble.I respect their choice not to do that.I won't ever try to force them to do it.See,there is no problem here.The resentment comes when they don't allow NON-MOSLEMS to drink or gamble.They impose their beliefs on others.The excuse will always be the same as your own(you feel strongly about it..so,how can you simply stand by as others do it.)That's not a good enough reason...The only good reason to force beliefs on people is when their actions endanger you,or your family.For instance,if somebody believes it's o.k. to drink n' drive,then you need to force your belief on them(not to drink n' drive.)People try to impose beliefs.They want to force others to take on new beliefs.This is the reason for most problems.People too often get "outside themselves,"and force people to act a certain way they find acceptable.Works fine until you lose power,and then somebody else will force you to take on their beliefs.

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Giuliani is my man with McCain a distant 2nd

Ditto with Rudy with Richardson 2nd...

Ron Paul, thank God, is last on my list.
I would have pulled my spleen out if he came up first.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

say what you want about me, being pro-life is something I have been passionate about since I was a freshman in high school. I have volunteered and taken part in many pro-life rallys, and the thought of abortion makes me sick. I have eight nieces and nephews, and thinking about something as terrible as abortion is sad.

Here is a video that you guys can view if you would like, it is an abortion taking place 11 weeks into the pregnancy, and is hard to watch, but I think could have the ability to change some peoples opinion. As the instrument is being put in to poke the baby and take its life, you can see the baby squirming to get away and doing anything in its power to save itself from the harm of the instrument. This is murder plain and simple.

http://www.silentscream.org/video/SS...ntSc_Eng_3.mov

Since you are an "active" protester, where do you draw the line..Would you picket a Dr's house? Harass their family? Bomb a clinic? Say a silent prayer of thanks when one of Scheidler's nuts kills a nurse or Dr?

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Since you are an "active" protester, where do you draw the line..Would you picket a Dr's house? Harass their family? Bomb a clinic? Say a silent prayer of thanks when one of Scheidler's nuts kills a nurse or Dr?

I'm not a very violent person if that is what you are asking, and I would do none of those things that you said. None of the pro-life people that I have witnessed at the rallys are violent, or harrass anyone, we normally march around the town with signs and end up at the church where we say a few prayers and go on our way.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

say what you want about me, being pro-life is something I have been passionate about since I was a freshman in high school. I have volunteered and taken part in many pro-life rallys, and the thought of abortion makes me sick. I have eight nieces and nephews, and thinking about something as terrible as abortion is sad.

Here is a video that you guys can view if you would like, it is an abortion taking place 11 weeks into the pregnancy, and is hard to watch, but I think could have the ability to change some peoples opinion. As the instrument is being put in to poke the baby and take its life, you can see the baby squirming to get away and doing anything in its power to save itself from the harm of the instrument. This is murder plain and simple.

http://www.silentscream.org/video/SS...ntSc_Eng_3.mov

"say what you want about me, being pro-life is something I have been passionate about since I was a freshman in high school."

you were in favor of baby murder before 2005?

"I have volunteered and taken part in many pro-life rallys"

like you i hate those pro-death people.

"I have eight nieces and nephews, and thinking about something as terrible as abortion is sad."

my sympathy to your aunt.

"Here is a video that you guys can view if you would like, it is an abortion taking place 11 weeks into the pregnancy, and is hard to watch, but I think could have the ability to change some peoples opinion."

i love the optimism of the young.

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

"say what you want about me, being pro-life is something I have been passionate about since I was a freshman in high school."

you were in favor of baby murder before 2005?

"I have volunteered and taken part in many pro-life rallys"

like you i hate those pro-death people.

"I have eight nieces and nephews, and thinking about something as terrible as abortion is sad."

my sympathy to your aunt.

"Here is a video that you guys can view if you would like, it is an abortion taking place 11 weeks into the pregnancy, and is hard to watch, but I think could have the ability to change some peoples opinion."

i love the optimism of the young.

I have been pro-life my entire life, but didn't start really getting into it til I was about 15, and I am now 21. Sympath for my aunt??? If they are my nieces and nephews that means they are either my brother or sisters kids, not my aunts.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

I'm not a very violent person if that is what you are asking, and I would do none of those things that you said. None of the pro-life people that I have witnessed at the rallys are violent, or harrass anyone, we normally march around the town with signs and end up at the church where we say a few prayers and go on our way.

so you're just annoying and self satisfied.

good deal.

it's like wearing a t-shirt against genocide to you. i can scratch my head and wonder what you think you're accomplishing but at least you aren't doing too much harm.

[IrishofNDMan]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

so you're just annoying and self satisfied.

good deal.

it's like wearing a t-shirt against genocide to you. i can scratch my head and wonder what you think you're accomplishing but at least you aren't doing too much harm.

whatever you want to call it, I guess having and growing up around my nieces and nephews who range from 2-18 years old has had an affect on me. Made me realize how much pro-life I really am, and is also the reason why I am going to Michigan State right now and getting a degree in Elementary Education.

Again, say what you want, I can handle a lot of crap on here.

My wife...

The STAUNCH Republican or so she thinks
Had:
1. Obama
2. Biden
3. Clinton

She's all sputtering, how could this be...
I tell her this is not some scientific survey.
But it shows how much she takes into account
personality. She hates, despises, Clinton.

But of course it had no questions about how
important cankles are.

Sorry to interrrupt the fierce abortion
issue which we have visited an infinite number
of times.