Report: Dutrow Facing Drug Positive

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck the reason why trainers have barns full of horses is mostly due to success.. The more you win the more people want you to win with more money.. It has nothing to do with attitude.. Nobody likes to lose money and the only barns that have waiting lists for clients are the ones that have outstanding numbers..

IEAH is going to leave Dutrow IMO...

You are missing the point. I understand that they are big outfits because they win. But they arent the only trainers that can win. It may seem like it on the surface but it does have a lot to do with attitude. Because if you continue to employ trainers who repeatedly get suspended and have violations than you are doing nothing more than condoning his actions. If owners were serious about "cleaning up" the game they could start by sending horses elsewhere. THAT would get these guys attention quicker than 6 month suspensions.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Absolutely not true. If people werent so concerned that they would not have the "edge" they would leave. The perception that these guys have an advantage is why owners ignore these kinds of issues. It isnt like there arent trainers out there that arent successful that dont have issues like dutrow and Assmussen. Regulation is a not going to do anything if the people who pay the bills (owners and bettors) either dont care about changing things. If you keep betting than you are sending the signal that you dont care about it. If owners dont change trainers with terrible records of violations, they are showing they dont care how they win. It is on them.

Just win baby "al davis"

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Whether he is the reason for their success or not, he may have accomplished it with the assistance of drugs that will be banned shortly. The playing field will get level. IEAH will have to dump Dutrow. I assume they may have been looking for a way to dump him. There is no question about it. There are plenty of very good trainers out there doing it without all the drugs.

Actually it wont

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Absolutely not true. If people werent so concerned that they would not have the "edge" they would leave. The perception that these guys have an advantage is why owners ignore these kinds of issues. It isnt like there arent trainers out there that arent successful that dont have issues like dutrow and Assmussen. Regulation is a not going to do anything if the people who pay the bills (owners and bettors) either dont care about changing things. If you keep betting than you are sending the signal that you dont care about it. If owners dont change trainers with terrible records of violations, they are showing they dont care how they win. It is on them.

You are 100% correct here. The owners that tolerate this stuff need to be called out, starting with those that employ guys like Dutrow and Asmussen. But has a single member of the media asked Jess "I Want to Clean Up the Game" Jackson why he uses Asmussen as his trainer? If they have, I must have missed his response.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are missing the point. I understand that they are big outfits because they win. But they arent the only trainers that can win. It may seem like it on the surface but it does have a lot to do with attitude. Because if you continue to employ trainers who repeatedly get suspended and have violations than you are doing nothing more than condoning his actions. If owners were serious about "cleaning up" the game they could start by sending horses elsewhere. THAT would get these guys attention quicker than 6 month suspensions.

There will always be another new owner with fresh money looking to win NOW.. Owners can't and will never legislate themselves you are being completely naive.. You go to Disney after you win the superbowl.. Who would send horses to a guy who isn't on the cutting edge and ahead of the curve.. Drugs aren't always the reason why these guys win more.. Maybe its a hyberbaric chamber maybe its swimming a horse maybe its running them up hills in Maryland.. Chuck there are only a few elite trainers who can offer an owner with unlimited funds unlimited super care and conditioning..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Maybe there is a bad batch of masking agent going around?

masking agents dont work anymore. How many times will you bring up the "mystery" masking agent scam?

I hear trainer Charles Simon is on the short list for IEAH replacement for Dutrow.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

There will always be another new owner with fresh money looking to win NOW.. Owners can't and will never legislate themselves you are being completely naive.. You go to Disney after you win the superbowl.. Who would send horses to a guy who isn't on the cutting edge and ahead of the curve.. Drugs aren't always the reason why these guys win more.. Maybe its a hyberbaric chamber maybe its swimming a horse maybe its running them up hills in Maryland.. Chuck there are only a few elite trainers who can offer an owner with unlimited funds unlimited super care and conditioning..

Which is why the game is so screwed up and no amount of federal intervention or central command can change it. There is a difference between being on the cutting edge and doing illegal things. Unfortunately it seems like the lines have blurred so much that people cant see the difference and worse dont care. Any trainer can offer an owner with unlimited funds these things Freddy. Swimming, hyperbaric, off track training...these things are available to anyone if they are given the funds. These guys are not staying big despite the bad press because they give gastrogard. Owners stay there because they are too insecure or egotistical to admit they dont care HOW they are winning. You cant expect every big owner to have a moral conscience but it would be nice to see one.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by kagbr

I hear trainer Charles Simon is on the short list for IEAH replacement for Dutrow.

Chuck...new Jockey for Big Brown when you take over?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Chuck...new Jockey for Big Brown when you take over?

Bringing Bailey out of retirement but he cant use the whip

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

masking agents dont work anymore. How many times will you bring up the "mystery" masking agent scam?

HEY not fair

some of us lose because the jockey is an idiot, some of us lose because the trainer is using designerdrugs
can't I lose because of the mystery masking agent scam??

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Which is why the game is so screwed up and no amount of federal intervention or central command can change it. There is a difference between being on the cutting edge and doing illegal things. Unfortunately it seems like the lines have blurred so much that people cant see the difference and worse dont care. Any trainer can offer an owner with unlimited funds these things Freddy. Swimming, hyperbaric, off track training...these things are available to anyone if they are given the funds. These guys are not staying big despite the bad press because they give gastrogard. Owners stay there because they are too insecure or egotistical to admit they dont care HOW they are winning. You cant expect every big owner to have a moral conscience but it would be nice to see one.

Well we know the Shiek doesn't use drugs in Dubai..lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

HEY not fair

some of us lose because the jockey is an idiot, some of us lose because the trainer is using designerdrugs
can't I lose because of the mystery masking agent scam??

If you find out what the mystery is be sure to let us know

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Scav

thinking out loud, but why couldn't the fine/penalty increase for the amount of overage. I mean listen, a couple pentagrams or whatever they measured in over and I think it is understandable, when it is an ALLOWABLE medication, but when you are twice the legal limit, you are playing games.

Could this work, like if you are 50% over the allowable limit, hit them with a 50k fine and if they are 100% over, hit them with 100k

Just throwing an option against the wall so I don't want to hear how moronic I am.

How is the intentional, sabotage, contamination aspect going to be dealt with? 24 hour security? Cost? The end is desireable, I agree with you -- but the means are just not feasible.

OTOH, if this horse came back at some massive level, the highest ever seen -- what exactly are we talking about here? 100% intentional in order to cash a ticket, knowing the horse would come up positive, giving up the purse and knowing you'll only get a "first offense" hit because you've never had a problem in KY?

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Here's the problematic statement from John Veitch:

Veitch said the 15-day suspension and return of the purse money was the penalty for a first offense, according to Kentucky rules.

Only in racing is he viewed as a first time offender. Yet another meaningless slap on the wrist.

Yes, this is very much a problem.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Well we know the Shiek doesn't use drugs in Dubai..lol

Do they use whips on the camels?

[blackthroatedwind]

Would someone please give Chuck some f'n horses so he has less time to post on this site.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Would someone please give Chuck some f'n horses so he has less time to post on this site.

Why would anyone knowingly want to lose money?

[docicu3]

Why don't any of these racing scribes ask Dutrow to explain how this horse was given that much bronchodilating medication? If you gave that much albuterol or salbuterol to a human being their heart would be going so fast you might be breaking indoor speed records after they had their massive heart attack.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Why would anyone knowingly want to lose money?

Don't you think this is getting a little too personal? We all know you are a douche bag but we aren't calling you that every five minutes.