10/9 (BEL): Champagne S., Frizette S., Jamaica H. (G1's)

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

..nothing against you or your namesake.
It's just a little premature to annoint a horse who very well may be better suited to be a sprinter/miler as a legitimate Kentucky Derby candidate off one 6F maiden win.

When was the last time a Derby winner won their debut by open lengths sprinting as a 2-year old?

Oh, ok. For a second there, I thought I'd have to be mean to you.

The answer to your question is 2010!

J/K. Horses like this never last long, and with PG1985 getting the mount on him, he's toast.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Oh, ok. For a second there, I thought I'd have to be mean to you.

The answer to your question is 2010!

J/K. Horses like this never last long, and with PG1985 getting the mount on him, he's toast.

Actually, I think Super Saver won his 2nd start, and it was going a mile.
The answer to my question was probably Smarty Jones. Didn't he win his debut at Philly by 6 or 7 lengths?

Of course Indian Charlies can produce classic distance horses, on both surfaces. I'm just not quite as excited about Uncle Mo's long-term potential as some people, but he's an exciting 2-year old, for sure.

[Indian Charlie]

Interesting Ragozin take on Uncle Mo.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/rac...ne-stakes.aspx

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Interesting Ragozin take on Uncle Mo.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/rac...ne-stakes.aspx

Always good to see their misinterpretations that have led to horses racing four times a year and once every two months during peak times.

Uncle Mo will likely run a lower fig because he earned his debut figure on a track playing very kindly to inside speed and is now stretching out a quarter of a mile on a fair racetrack. A lower fig with be neither a regression, nor a bounce, but a logical result of very different circumstances.

The hooey that has helped destroy high level racing. Then again, maybe some people think Blame benefited from his two months off after the Whitney.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Always good to see their misinterpretations that have led to horses racing four times a year and once every two months during peak times.

Uncle Mo will likely run a lower fig because he earned his debut figure on a track playing very kindly to inside speed and is now stretching out a quarter of a mile on a fair racetrack. A lower fig with be neither a regression, nor a bounce, but a logical result of very different circumstances.

The hooey that has helped destroy high level racing. Then again, maybe some people think Blame benefited from his two months off after the Whitney.

Yeah, I don't buy it either.

What's interesting to me is the amount of hype they are giving him.

Only 6 Derby winners in the last 20 years ran a Derby figure as good as his debut?

That seems retarded comparing a 2yo 6f msw to the Derby, but oh well.

I really do hope this horse holds up though, for obvious reasons.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Always good to see their misinterpretations that have led to horses racing four times a year and once every two months during peak times.

Uncle Mo will likely run a lower fig because he earned his debut figure on a track playing very kindly to inside speed and is now stretching out a quarter of a mile on a fair racetrack. A lower fig with be neither a regression, nor a bounce, but a logical result of very different circumstances.

The hooey that has helped destroy high level racing. Then again, maybe some people think Blame benefited from his two months off after the Whitney.

The saying should be, they just don't make trainers like they used to not horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

The saying should be, they just don't make trainers like they used to not horses.

Hard to argue with that.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Hard to argue with that.

or owners?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Always good to see their misinterpretations that have led to horses racing four times a year and once every two months during peak times.

Uncle Mo will likely run a lower fig because he earned his debut figure on a track playing very kindly to inside speed and is now stretching out a quarter of a mile on a fair racetrack. A lower fig with be neither a regression, nor a bounce, but a logical result of very different circumstances.

The hooey that has helped destroy high level racing. Then again, maybe some people think Blame benefited from his two months off after the Whitney.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

The saying should be, they just don't make trainers like they used to not horses.

What I don't get is why some trainer does not realize this and give some quality horses a solid campaign. Are they afraid to be criticized now for running their horses too much?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm going to bet Prince Will I Am in the Jamaica. He may ultimately want more ground but he really ran a nice race in the N1X last time out and the pace in here looks like it'll be solid.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Yeah, I ended up taking him as well.

Great call guys

[randallscott35]

Very impressive close from PWIA....solid call I agree.

[pointman]

That was a very nice win by Uncle Mo, if this horse can learn to rate he might be the real deal.

[Sightseek]

http://www.drf.com/news/boys-toscono...ks-sharp-drill


OZONE PARK, N.Y. – The Breeders’ Cup is four weeks away, but when it comes to Boys At Tosconova, trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. wouldn’t mind if the $2 million Juvenile were run this weekend.

“He’s ready to run right now,” Dutrow said Friday morning after watching Boys At Tosconova work an effortless six furlongs in 1:13.18 over Aqueduct’s main track. “All we have to do is bide our time; it’s not like I have to get him ready to run. He’s ready to chew somebody out right now.”


Gee Rick, there was a little race called the Champagne today.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

http://www.drf.com/news/boys-toscono...ks-sharp-drill


OZONE PARK, N.Y. – The Breeders’ Cup is four weeks away, but when it comes to Boys At Tosconova, trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. wouldn’t mind if the $2 million Juvenile were run this weekend.

“He’s ready to run right now,” Dutrow said Friday morning after watching Boys At Tosconova work an effortless six furlongs in 1:13.18 over Aqueduct’s main track. “All we have to do is bide our time; it’s not like I have to get him ready to run. He’s ready to chew somebody out right now.”


Gee Rick, there was a little race called the Champagne today.

Amazing...

[Indian Charlie]

Any guesses as to the figs earned in the Champagne and Frizette?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Any guesses as to the figs earned in the Champagne and Frizette?

94 and 81.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Any guesses as to the figs earned in the Champagne and Frizette?

A Z Warrior - 81
Uncle Schmo - 94

[Indian Charlie]

I'd have guessed somewhat higher since the track didn't seem particularly fast, but I'm far from an expert.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I'd have guessed somewhat higher since the track didn't seem particularly fast, but I'm far from an expert.

It was pretty fast. 12K claimers went 1:09.98 in the first and very weak ( 50ish Beyer types ) maiden claimers went 1:11 1/5.

How high a fig could the second finisher in the Frizette have gotten given the tougher trip/setup than she had in the Spinaway?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by pointman

What I don't get is why some trainer does not realize this and give some quality horses a solid campaign. Are they afraid to be criticized now for running their horses too much?

I'm not a believer in bounce theory other than when a horse with some existing physical issues runs a huge race. IMO most figure fluctuations are related to trip, bias, pace, randomness, reversion to mean, etc....

However, I think it has always been well known that a long hard campaign will eventually wear a horse down or cause injuries to accumulate and sideline a horse. To some extent that's what form cycles are all about.

Aside from the influence of the Sheet and Thorograph players on the thinking about race spacing, bouncing etc... another factor contributing to the easier campaigns has been the Breeder's Cup.

The Breeder's Cup races are very rich, prestigious races and count for more in year end Eclipse Award voting than any other race during the year (other than perhaps the Derby) because of the depth of quality.

That motivates trainers and owners to aim their best horses for those late season races. Given that they know a hard campaign could cause their top horses to tail off or get injured by year end, they tend to look for easier more well spaced campaigns in a effort to keep their horses very fresh and more likely to be able to fire a peak on the right day.