90 Days for Dutrow; ARCI calls for license revocation

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am not suggesting anything of the sort. A professional license comes with qualifications. What I am suggesting is that his repeated breaking of the rules could disqualify him for eligibility for said license. Just because you apply for a license doesn't mean you will get one. People have been refused licenses for far fewer offenses that Dutrow has.

You have no right to hold a license.

As a trainer of multiple Grade 1 winners for some for some of the most respected owners in the industry certainly suggests Dutrow is a qualified trainer and practices outstanding horsemanship. Denying him an opportunity to practice his trade because of multiple speeding tix that he has paid for in full shouldn't qualify him for the death penalty.

http://www.drf.com/news/dutrows-atto...onal-president

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What the state could do is simply refuse to renew his license when it expires. There surely is grounds to do so and plenty of precedent. The state could easily argue its case using the plethora of examples from the Harness business that they have refused to license. While not every state would be required to reciprocate it would probably be more effective than the current situation.

Would that really do any good though?

All he would need is a groom or hotwalker license and a program trainer. Remember how Cleveland Johnson was like a 40% trainer when Dutrow got 60 days and he filled in about 9 or 10 years ago? Cleveland Johnson went out on his own - and was like a low profile Jeff Odintz.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

As a trainer of multiple Grade 1 winners for some for some of the most respected owners in the industry certainly suggests Dutrow is a qualified trainer and practices outstanding horsemanship. Denying him an opportunity to practice his trade because of multiple speeding tix that he has paid for in full shouldn't qualify him for the death penalty.

http://www.drf.com/news/dutrows-atto...onal-president

This is one of the stupidest defenses I have heard yet.

Acting as though Dutrow is being singled out is laughable. As Steve posted earlier in the thread, if you can afford to hire a competent lawyer to just keep fighting and fighting via the legal system eventually the states tire of the continued legal battles and settle. That doesn't mean he should be allowed to keep his license, just the states really don't care about horseracing enough.

And if your chosen field of profession requires a license than you should be forced to adhere to the rules in order to keep your license.

If a Doctor continually violates the rules, they lose their license.


You acting as though 64 violations, speeding tickets or otherwise, is no big deal is telling

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Would that really do any good though?

All he would need is a groom or hotwalker license and a program trainer. Remember how Cleveland Johnson was like a 40% trainer when Dutrow got 60 days and he filled in about 9 or 10 years ago? Cleveland Johnson went out on his own - and was like a low profile Jeff Odintz.

Losing your license means more than just transferring the horses to someone else. They can refuse to license him in any capacity. Plus after a period of time if you apply and receive a license many times it will be conditional on not getting any violations of any manner. When I worked at Yonkers for a few years there were plenty of people who were denied licenses. Can you work around it for a period of time? Sure but it makes things a whole lot more difficult.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is one of the stupidest defenses I have heard yet.

Acting as though Dutrow is being singled out is laughable. As Steve posted earlier in the thread, if you can afford to hire a competent lawyer to just keep fighting and fighting via the legal system eventually the states tire of the continued legal battles and settle. That doesn't mean he should be allowed to keep his license, just the states really don't care about horseracing enough.

And if your chosen field of profession requires a license than you should be forced to adhere to the rules in order to keep your license.

If a Doctor continually violates the rules, they lose their license.


You acting as though 64 violations, speeding tickets or otherwise, is no big deal is telling

Shouldnt you consider Dutrow has had thousands of starters in 25 years of training. 2.5 violations a year should disqualify a man from earning a living? Until you set up rules that call for the death penalty if broken you have have to stay consisent or face major legal battles that you cant win.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Losing your license means more than just transferring the horses to someone else. They can refuse to license him in any capacity. Plus after a period of time if you apply and receive a license many times it will be conditional on not getting any violations of any manner. When I worked at Yonkers for a few years there were plenty of people who were denied licenses. Can you work around it for a period of time? Sure but it makes things a whole lot more difficult.

You don't think it will turn into something that happened at Philly Park when McCaslin had all of his problems ... and supposedly his operation started using laughable phony program trainers like Jayne Vaders and Ed Auwarter ... who both turned from 3% trainers into 30% Alchemist wonders overnight?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Shouldnt you consider Dutrow has had thousands of starters in 25 years of training. 2.5 violations a year should disqualify a man from earning a living? Until you set up rules that call for the death penalty if broken you have have to stay consisent or face major legal battles that you cant win.

This is a pathetic argument. 25 years of training? Try about 12. Most of those other years he had 1 or 2 horses.

2.5 violations a year? Are you serious? You think that is an acceptable number?

The problem with this business is that no one has been willing to throw guys who refuse to follow the rules out. No other sport would ever allow such blatant rules violations to keep continuing. If he was a NCAA football coach he would have been fired long ago and no one would be crying about his rights. He makes Barry Bonds and Roger Clemons look like good citizens.

Someone has to be first. Dutrow has earned it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You don't think it will turn into something that happened at Philly Park when McCaslin had all of his problems ... and supposedly his operation started using laughable phony program trainers like Jayne Vaders and Ed Auwarter ... who both turned from 3% trainers into 30% Alchemist wonders overnight?

Each case is different. No one cares about Philly Park.

[Kasept]

Dutrow's attorney responds to ARCI president
By David Grening

The attorney representing trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. lashed out at a racing official who earlier this week called upon the New York State Racing and Wagering Board to consider revoking the trainer’s license for repeated rules violations. In an e-mail, attorney Gerard Romski wrote that Ed Martin, president of the Association of Racing Commissioners International, unfairly singled out “Mr. Dutrow while ignoring the actions of others.”

“In our opinion, Mr. Martin’s recent politically motivated letter, is just another example of such an attempt to unfairly prejudice and harm Mr. Dutrow without due cause. We hope that Mr. Martin did not rush to judgment and that he paid more attention to the actual facts when he was in charge at the New York State Racing and Wagering Board than he has demonstrated in his recent unfounded and irresponsible letter."

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The ARCI of 50-years-ago was the greatest friend the bettor ever had in horse racing.

Their leadership bitterly tried to fight against takeout increases and had blistering rhetoric of HANA proportions - and that when the takeout was 12% at most tracks.

I don't remember a peep out of the ARCI about Santa Anita's takeout increase. Not only has horse racing lost the ARCI ... but the DRF columnists of the 20's, 30's, and 40's were very good friends of the bettor. Things started to go down hill fast in the 70's ... the DRF of today isn't a mass producer of silly fluff like in the 70's ... but in terms of the writing (not the data) certainly no one there today is sticking up for the bettor...even though many of them are bettors themselves. As great and talented a writer as Crist is - you couldn't possibly find a guy any more anti-firebrand than him.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a pathetic argument. 25 years of training? Try about 12. Most of those other years he had 1 or 2 horses.

2.5 violations a year? Are you serious? You think that is an acceptable number?

The problem with this business is that no one has been willing to throw guys who refuse to follow the rules out. No other sport would ever allow such blatant rules violations to keep continuing. If he was a NCAA football coach he would have been fired long ago and no one would be crying about his rights. He makes Barry Bonds and Roger Clemons look like good citizens.

Someone has to be first. Dutrow has earned it.

it's not as tho the sport would miss him either. plenty of trainers out there, many who follow the rules.

[asudevil]

Kentucky Derby (gr. I)-winning trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. has some explaining to do.

New York racing authorities deemed Dutrow ”obnoxious” and “unbecoming” and ordered him to show why he should not be suspended, lose his license, and be kicked off state tracks after years and dozens of sanctions.

The New York State Racing and Wagering Board suspended Dutrow twice last month. The suspensions totaled 90 days for hypodermic needles in his barn and for a winning horse's positive test for a banned painkiller at Aqueduct last year.

Dutrow has appealed and the board scheduled hearings for March 30-31.


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...oss-of-license

[paulo537]

1 year suspension.

[Danzig]

interesting that jocks can get banned for life for personal drug use, but trainers can't for drugging the horses. how does that make sense?

[rpncaine]

That is one helluva good point....

[Kasept]

Trainers most certainly can be banned for 'drugging' horses, with the most egregious and serious of narcotics, and I know of no jock whose personal drug use resulted in a lifetime ban. As in every case with this topic, generalizations cannot be applied. As has been discussed this week with Migliore, Haskin and Allday, the problem you have, specifically with Rick Dutrrow, is that suddenly saying after the fact that previous history is now part of a new penalty, is patently unfair... The 'double secret probation' mentality.

You want to admonish him and set up a set of ground rules he's required to follow going forward, fine. That's fair. But the way this is being gerrymandered isn't right and won't hold up legally. Even Allday, who has had a very public breakup and fight with Dutrow, said that you better apply the same standards to EVERYONE if you're going to go down this road.

And has been said here before, there's several 'angels with dirty halos' around that get away with as much or more envelope pushing as Rick Dutrow. Would be curious to see the reaction of the public if some of them were dragged out into the spotlight. Dutrow brings a lot of negative focus on himself, but the doctrine of fair play has to be part of whatever attempt there is to provide an atmosphere of integrity in the sport.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Trainers most certainly can be banned for 'drugging' horses, with the most egregious and serious of narcotics, and I know of no jock whose personal drug use resulted in a lifetime ban. As in every case with this topic, generalizations cannot be applied. As has been discussed this week with Migliore, Haskin and Allday, the problem you have, specifically with Rick Dutrrow, is that suddenly saying after the fact that previous history is now part of a new penalty, is patently unfair... The 'double secret probation' mentality.

You want to admonish him and set up a set of ground rules he's required to follow going forward, fine. That's fair. But the way this is being gerrymandered isn't right and won't hold up legally. Even Allday, who has had a very public breakup and fight with Dutrow, said that you better apply the same standards to EVERYONE if you're going to go down this road.

And has been said here before, there's several 'angels with dirty halos' around that get away with as much or more envelope pushing as Rick Dutrow. Would be curious to see the reaction of the public if some of them were dragged out into the spotlight. Dutrow brings a lot of negative focus on himself, but the doctrine of fair play has to be part of whatever attempt there is to provide an atmosphere of integrity in the sport.

Do you think Dutrow invokes "the doctrine of fair play" in his daily activities?
In my opinion, the sport would be better off without Rick Dutrow (and IEAH). I don't believe he should be singled out, they should go after every trainer "pushing the envelope", but you have to start somewhere.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by golfer

Do you think Dutrow invokes "the doctrine of fair play" in his daily activities? In my opinion, the sport would be better off without Rick Dutrow (and IEAH). I don't believe he should be singled out, they should go after every trainer "pushing the envelope", but you have to start somewhere.

That's fine, but start somewhere with an established framework of what constitutes eligibility for license revocation or similar exclusion. Because the inclination to single out individuals based on perceived image isn't right or fair. And more importantly, because it may not be accurate.

I'll reiterate that there are individuals and operations out there doing things far worse than whatever people think Dutrow, or IEAH for that matter, are doing. Those just seem to be convenient pinatas for the public and media and low-hanging fruit for regulators. In the meantime, the wolves in sheep's clothing operate freely.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Trainers most certainly can be banned for 'drugging' horses, with the most egregious and serious of narcotics, and I know of no jock whose personal drug use resulted in a lifetime ban. As in every case with this topic, generalizations cannot be applied. As has been discussed this week with Migliore, Haskin and Allday, the problem you have, specifically with Rick Dutrrow, is that suddenly saying after the fact that previous history is now part of a new penalty, is patently unfair... The 'double secret probation' mentality.

You want to admonish him and set up a set of ground rules he's required to follow going forward, fine. That's fair. But the way this is being gerrymandered isn't right and won't hold up legally. Even Allday, who has had a very public breakup and fight with Dutrow, said that you better apply the same standards to EVERYONE if you're going to go down this road.

And has been said here before, there's several 'angels with dirty halos' around that get away with as much or more envelope pushing as Rick Dutrow. Would be curious to see the reaction of the public if some of them were dragged out into the spotlight. Dutrow brings a lot of negative focus on himself, but the doctrine of fair play has to be part of whatever attempt there is to provide an atmosphere of integrity in the sport.

100% accurate.. Dutrow is a terriffic trainer and a great personality that the sport needs. He also has cheated way to much and the SHIIT needs to stop. So make new rules that apply to all and sets the ground work for such penalty!

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by golfer

Do you think Dutrow invokes "the doctrine of fair play" in his daily activities?

As for this question, I'd say that Dutrow's program tries to take every advantage it can under the rules to get the best performance possible from its' horses. There are dozens of large outfits that operate the exact same way. But its' funny that when those outfits catch medication positives, apologies are made FOR them by the public and media. It's not equitable.