Solargate

[Riot]

The Top Five Lies

Now they're at it again, this time trying to turn the unfortunate bankruptcy of a solar-power company named Solyndra into an all-out anti-Obama and anti-government attack. Here is a countdown of the top five lies they are telling about what happened with Solyndra:

5) The biggest investor in Solyndra was an Obama donor. Conservatives (and now picked up by corporate "mainstream" outlets) make the accusation that there was corruption in the process by which Solyndra received its loan because a major Obama donor named George Kaiser is a major investor in Solyndra. The charge is that Solyndra only received the loan guarantee as a result of campaign contributions by people "connected to" Solyndra. The problem with this is that George Kaiser was not an investor in Solyndra. According to Tulsa World,

In an emailed statement to the Tulsa World, a representative of the George Kaiser Family Foundation said the organization made the investment through Argonaut.

"George Kaiser is not an investor in Solyndra and did not participate in any discussions with the U.S. government regarding the loan," the statement said. "GKFF invests in a globally diversified portfolio across many different asset classes."

The Kaiser Family Foundation is a philanthropic organization, which means Kaiser (or anyone else) could not personally profit from a successful investment by the foundation.

4) Green energy is a bad investment. Oil-connected conservatives have been trying to kill off investment in green energy for some time. They see opportunity in hyping up a "scandal" over the bankruptcy of Solyndra as a way to attack the idea of developing a green-energy industry in the US. Just today, Heritage Foundation, which for months has been attacking the idea of creating green jobs, has this posted: Solyndra Scandal Ends Green Jobs Myth. (I have several examples of conservative attacks on green manufacturing in the post, The Phony Solyndra Solar Scandal.)

Just in the last year China gave $30 billion financing to 6 solar companies. If the benefits from developing a green energy industry that provides lots of green jobs are a myth then why is China putting so much into this effort?

3) The government lost money "picking winners and losers." This is a core line of attack by the right. By tricking the public into thinking that the purpose of government's efforts to trigger a green-energy industry was to make money for the government by investing in individual companies, they can make this look bad because one company went into bankruptcy. But the purpose of our government's involvement in this is to help trigger an ecosystem around which a green-energy industry can grow. When a new technology is promising, it might be risky to investors, but very beneficial to us as a country to pursue it. That way we end up with a chunk of the millions of jobs and trillions of dollars that result. That benefits everyone.

The government does not operate like a venture capitalist, investing in companies with the hope of reaping a profit for itself. Compare the effort to trigger a green-energy industry to government-funded cancer research. Some directions of exploration don’t pan out. But you don’t know that until you fund the tests. This is what happened with Solyndra. The loan guarantee enabled Solyndra to get private investment hire researchers as well as manufacturing and other employees, to build a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in the US, to develop a supply chain, to buy equipment, etc. This was part of the stimulus and all that money was moved into the economy. And all of those are still in the United States, ready to be part of scaling up a green-energy industry. So where the country is concerned, we didn’t lose at all.

The goal was not to make Solyndra a successful company, the goal was to trigger an ecosystem for the green-energy industry in the US. Weren't the things the money was used for, good for the country? Even though the company Solyndra didn’t make it, the money created jobs and leaves behind technology, trained workrs, equipment and facilities that other companies will use.

2) The Solyndra loan was rushed or pushed. This loan originated under the Bush administration -- and for good reasons. Following the passage of the Energy Policy Act of 2005, the government began efforts to cultivate a US-based green-energy industry. Solyndra offered a promising technology and applied for loan guarantees. Following a review by career professionals in the Department of Energy (DOE) Solyndra was asked to provide more information. A few months later, under the new Obama administration, the same career professionals received the requested information and proceeded to approve the loan.

They DOE had some conditions, and a few months later those conditions were met, and the timeline of meeting the conditions meant it happened under the new administration but was handled by the same career professionals. It was the right thing to do for the country to suggest the loan under the Bush administration, which did nothing wrong. Approving the loan under the Obama administration also helps the country because that money went toward helping develop that ecosystem that creates companies and jobs. Stories about rushing the approval are meant to make it sound like it was done to help a major campaign donor who, as point #1 above makes clear, was not the investor. It is the only reason the timing is an issue.

The Number One Lie

And the number 1 lie told by conservatives is:

1) Something bad happened. The right has been trying to push the idea that something bad has happened involving Solyndra. They are calling it a "scandal." But it is entirely a manufactured scandal, like those from the Clinton era. This is what they do. Nothing bad happened.

The supposed campaign donor/investor is not an investor. The timing of the loan is not suspect, it followed the proper, transparent, accountable procedures. The loan assisted the development of a promising technology. The green-energy industry stands to create millions of jobs and trillions of dollars to the countries that are smart enough now to make the investments that help them grab a chunk of it. The loan was good for the country, even though one company went bankrupt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah. And you might go back and look at that time in the Bush administration trying to rush that loan guarantee through without vetting before Obama was elected, with help from Republican donors.

No, better to try and create political drama where little exists! Even though Solandra was going belly up a year ago.

The worse that happened here was yeah, the government gave money to a company that lost it. You know, like we've done before? Boeing ring a bell? The capitalist free market - it sucks when it's a real company, and not a money-making set-up like many of the Wall Street stock manipulations that pass for "business" today.

goodness knows that many wrongs should eventually make a right. so little drama exists, but let's go ahead and divert it towards the republicans.
at any rate, while they were still checking the risks, the wh pushed for an early go ahead for a photo op.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah. Yap, yap, yap ... and forget to mention all the facts. How gullible are you people? To believe everything you are spoon-fed by the right?

said the person eating up the spoon feedings from the left. pot meets kettle.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

goodness knows that many wrongs should eventually make a right. so little drama exists, but let's go ahead and divert it towards the republicans.
at any rate, while they were still checking the risks, the wh pushed for an early go ahead for a photo op.

Haven't you learned by now. Obama and the dems can do no wrong. It is all bush and the republicans fault. Riot will never admit when she or her beliefs are wrong. Stop being logical and just get on board with the hope and change.....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Haven't you learned by now. Obama and the dems can do no wrong. It is all bush and the republicans fault. Riot will never admit when she or her beliefs are wrong. Stop being logical and just get on board with the hope and change.....

yes, i know. just bored being away from home for my ninth night now..

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yes, i know. just bored being away from home for my ninth night now..

Morbid curiosity. I understand

[Riot]

Geesh, the right hates it when their Obama-hate attacks are proven to be nothing but manufactured red-meat

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

said the person eating up the spoon feedings from the left. pot meets kettle.

Facts have a liberal bias. That must suck for you.

Horrors! A photo op! That's .... a hell of a long way from "criminal" fraud.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah. Yap, yap, yap ... and forget to mention all the facts. How gullible are you people? To believe everything you are spoon-fed by the right?

What about the facts listed?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What about the facts listed?

Which ones? List "the facts" you are talking about. I suppose you'll leave out the ones that complicate your position, like the LA Times did.

[Cannon Shell]

Nothing bad happened? LOL

The govt backs $500+million in loan guarantees to a company that soon after goes bankrupt? That isn't bad?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Nothing bad happened? LOL

The govt backs $500+million in loan guarantees to a company that soon after goes bankrupt? That isn't bad?

The accusation isn't that "it's bad". Geeshus cripes. And I didn't say, "nothing bad happened". Try to not falsely or deliberately mischaracterize what other posters have said. Bad habit you have.

Now, are you going to list those specific "facts" you are talking about, or not, and change the subject?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Which ones? List "the facts" you are talking about. I suppose you'll leave out the ones that complicate your position, like the LA Times did.

I don't have a position.

What continues to confound me is that the situation isn't troubling to people like you. Rather than accept that this was a debacle that obviously has political undertones to it you attack the media and anyone else who dare bring up seemingly valid points.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

And the number 1 lie told by conservatives is:

1) Something bad happened. The right has been trying to push the idea that something bad has happened involving Solyndra. They are calling it a "scandal." But it is entirely a manufactured scandal, like those from the Clinton era. This is what they do. Nothing bad happened.

The loan was good for the country, even though one company went bankrupt.

uh ok

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

The accusation isn't that "it's bad". Geeshus cripes. And I didn't say, "nothing bad happened". Try to not falsely or deliberately mischaracterize what other posters have said. Bad habit you have.

Now, are you going to list those specific "facts" you are talking about, or not, and change the subject?

Yes you did

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't have a position.

What continues to confound me is that the situation isn't troubling to people like you.

"People like you" Who would that be, Chuck? People who bother to learn bother sides of the situation? But never mind, there you go again, blatently falsifying and mischaracterizing my position. Why don't you go back to the first post I made on this subject, and read it? You know, so you'll know my "position" accurately and not post bullshiat like the above.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yes you did

Really? Why don't you quote where I said "nothing bad happened"? Wait! Let me get some popcorn.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Geesh, the right hates it when their Obama-hate attacks are proven to be nothing but manufactured red-meat

you know full well i am not a member of 'the right'. but i do find it amusing that you accuse others of having the same behavior as yourself. you accuse, and then decry accusations. you accuse others of being led by the nose, and then give lessons in how to be led-but you don't see it in yourself! it's absolutely hilarious. it's all gb's war, but you completely ignore that congress fell lock step into voting for both wars! as tho bushie did it all himself! you don't mind assigning blame on pols and their stupidity, as long as it's only republican stupidity being pointed out. we can't have anyone accusing any of the glorious dems of being just as wretched as their wretched republican counterparts.
you compliment me on my intelligence when i bash republicans for their breathtaking stupidity, but when i do the same regarding the dipsh!t democrats, i suddenly don't know what i'm talking about....
absolutely hilarious.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Facts have a liberal bias. That must suck for you.

Horrors! A photo op! That's .... a hell of a long way from "criminal" fraud.

lmfao

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Nothing bad happened? LOL

The govt backs $500+million in loan guarantees to a company that soon after goes bankrupt? That isn't bad?

she didn't say it wasn't bad...she just started naming similar eff ups by others...you know, cause that makes it ok somehow. there's only something to see, or something to say, if it has (r) next to it...but not (d)..they're saints donchaknow. that's how you see both sides of a situation-don't acknowledge bad behavior by your side, just start throwing out what the 'other side' did...

the biggest problem of it all is that both 'sides' are bad, and we're the poor bastards stuck in the middle of both sets of crooks. and the fact that some think that having faith in one side will somehow right the ship--the one both sides are sinking.