Speaking of things that will proably eventually kill you...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Commercially raised meats are garbage. Thus, any study comparing the health effects of meats to a vegetable based diet, if based on very typical meats, is meaningless.

Properly raised meats are, in fact, a health food. Feed lot meat is worse than eating garbage.

Doctors are almost always wrong when it comes to dietary issues, as their training in medical school 1. includes next to nothing about nutrition and 2. what little they are given comes from biased sources, mainly from bogus studies.

One thing most people fail to consider about vegetarianism, or a mostly plant based diet.

There are crucial fat soluble vitamins that are next to impossible to get from plants. Vitamin D (I know, not really a vitamin), PREFORMED vitamin A (carotenes are not efficiently converted to vitamin A), and K (unless you like grazing on fresh grasses).

These nutrients are badly lacking in the American diet and the best source for them is grass fed meats and dairy. I am talking about food sources, as obviously you can make your own vitamin D.

Also, some of the B vitamins are difficult to obtain from plants.

I LOVE that people who eat primarily veggies often end up taking nutritional yeast to get B12. What most people don't realize is that B12 is added to yeast.

Yet another thing to consider...

Almost all plants are grown in soils that have become badly depleted in important minerals. You might think by choosing organic veggies that you are getting sufficient minerals, but the sad truth is, even organic veggies are badly under mineralized.

So, you need to eat A LOT of them to get anywhere near the minerals you need. The flip side of this is that most plants produce some sort of chemical defenses, than in small amounts are very beneficial to our health, but in larger amounts are toxic.

Then again, most plants that we eat have been selectively bred for a long time to minimize these substances. Notice how few people enjoy eating bitter plants anymore?

Me? I love ocean veggies, like kelp, dulse, etc. Absolutely loaded with minerals, and no toxic issues. I also like to collect wild plants and mushrooms, but that is not really feasible for most people.

I know I mentioned this book in a previous post, but I really think you would find this book interesting. At least look at it's product page on Amazon, read what it is about, and maybe read some of the user reviews. It's well written and loaded with lot's of really interesting information, and many delicious and easy recipes.

http://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-Tra...5712024&sr=8-1

Like any topic that tends to draw the zealot like types, one needs to keep an open perspective about these things. If you see any reviews that might be over the top (not saying that there are any for sure), take them with a grain of salt.

It's a wonderful book that could potentially let you see things in a different light.

It is important that they do most of the studies using commercially raised meats because that is what 99.9999% of Americans eat. However, I would like to see some studies done using grass-fed meat too. The results would probably be quite different.

I am on Dr. Al Sears' e-mail list and I get an e-mail from him every day. I don't agree with him on everything but I agree with most things that he says. He has a similar philosophy to you. He believes that meat is healthy as long as it is grass-fed. He says the same thing as you about today's vegetables. He says they only contain maybe 10% of the vitamins that vegetables from 70 years ago had.

As you said, if a person is a 100% vegan they need to take vitamin B supplements That tells me that we're not meant to be 100% vegans. We should at least eat a little bit of fish.

I will read the link you provided.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Nope.

Regarding your post above -- if you just look at most vegitarians, there skin and hair are often dull and a sign that they are missing vital nutrients in their diet. The same can be said of those eating highly processed meals...

Yup. When people typically go vegetarian, they at first realize big health gains, mostly due to a decrease in toxic food loads.

Then in a few years, key deficiencies kick in. Hair, skin and teeth are some of the most visible, but there are also behavioral changes as well.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

You eat raw beef and pork??

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

And raw eggs.

Yep. And fish, and chicken, and deer, and fruit, and veggies, and fish, etc...

If you can eat sushi and you are afraid of other meats, it's totally a mental block.

And I won't touch commercial meats. If I must eat crappy meat, I will definitely have it cooked.

It's delicious, it digests in about 1/10th the time, and I never feel bloated or crappy afterwards.

I do also cook these meats as well, but the taste is better and fresher raw.

I've recently started smoking my meats as well. Smoking as in things like bacon, smoked fish, etc. Cold smoke is wonderful.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It is important that they do most of the studies using commercially raised meats because that is what 99.9999% of Americans eat. However, I would like to see some studies done using grass-fed meat too. The results would probably be quite different.

I am on Dr. Al Sears' e-mail list and I get an e-mail from him every day. I don't agree with him on everything but I agree with most things that he says. He has a similar philosophy to you. He believes that meat is healthy as long as it is grass-fed. He says the same thing as you about today's vegetables. He says they only contain maybe 10% of the vitamins that vegetables from 70 years ago had.

As you said, if a person is a 100% vegan they need to take vitamin B supplements That tells me that we're not meant to be 100% vegans. We should at least eat a little bit of fish.

I will read the link you provided.

Studies are usually influenced by the biases of the people conducting them. Don't get too caught up with them.

We should eat a lot of fish. The minerals from the ocean and the fats from certain types of seafood make it supremely valuable.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

You eat raw beef and pork??

Haven't you had steak tartare?

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Haven't you had steak tartare?

Back when I was a kid I did.

IC do you eat raw meat after it's been frozen?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yep. And fish, and chicken, and deer, and fruit, and veggies, and fish, etc...

If you can eat sushi and you are afraid of other meats, it's totally a mental block.

And I won't touch commercial meats. If I must eat crappy meat, I will definitely have it cooked.

It's delicious, it digests in about 1/10th the time, and I never feel bloated or crappy afterwards.

I do also cook these meats as well, but the taste is better and fresher raw.

I've recently started smoking my meats as well. Smoking as in things like bacon, smoked fish, etc. Cold smoke is wonderful.

I thought smoked foods were bad because of the nitrates.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Commercially raised meats are garbage. Thus, any study comparing the health effects of meats to a vegetable based diet, if based on very typical meats, is meaningless.

Properly raised meats are, in fact, a health food. Feed lot meat is worse than eating garbage.

Doctors are almost always wrong when it comes to dietary issues, as their training in medical school 1. includes next to nothing about nutrition and 2. what little they are given comes from biased sources, mainly from bogus studies.

One thing most people fail to consider about vegetarianism, or a mostly plant based diet.

There are crucial fat soluble vitamins that are next to impossible to get from plants. Vitamin D (I know, not really a vitamin), PREFORMED vitamin A (carotenes are not efficiently converted to vitamin A), and K (unless you like grazing on fresh grasses).

These nutrients are badly lacking in the American diet and the best source for them is grass fed meats and dairy. I am talking about food sources, as obviously you can make your own vitamin D.

Also, some of the B vitamins are difficult to obtain from plants.

I LOVE that people who eat primarily veggies often end up taking nutritional yeast to get B12. What most people don't realize is that B12 is added to yeast.

Yet another thing to consider...

Almost all plants are grown in soils that have become badly depleted in important minerals. You might think by choosing organic veggies that you are getting sufficient minerals, but the sad truth is, even organic veggies are badly under mineralized.

So, you need to eat A LOT of them to get anywhere near the minerals you need. The flip side of this is that most plants produce some sort of chemical defenses, than in small amounts are very beneficial to our health, but in larger amounts are toxic.

Then again, most plants that we eat have been selectively bred for a long time to minimize these substances. Notice how few people enjoy eating bitter plants anymore?

Me? I love ocean veggies, like kelp, dulse, etc. Absolutely loaded with minerals, and no toxic issues. I also like to collect wild plants and mushrooms, but that is not really feasible for most people.

I know I mentioned this book in a previous post, but I really think you would find this book interesting. At least look at it's product page on Amazon, read what it is about, and maybe read some of the user reviews. It's well written and loaded with lot's of really interesting information, and many delicious and easy recipes.

http://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-Tra...5712024&sr=8-1

Like any topic that tends to draw the zealot like types, one needs to keep an open perspective about these things. If you see any reviews that might be over the top (not saying that there are any for sure), take them with a grain of salt.

It's a wonderful book that could potentially let you see things in a different light.

Thanks for the link. I read about 20 pages. I agree with most of the things they are saying. The guy (Dr. Al Sears) that I get a lot of my information from says most of the same things that it says in that book.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Back when I was a kid I did.

IC do you eat raw meat after it's been frozen?

Yes. I know it's FAR better fresh, but when you have 100s of pounds, there ain't much you can do.

I'm thinking you probably meant that question as in do I freeze my meat (ha ha) before eating it, to ensure food safety. If that's the question, that is nothing I concern myself with. Sadly, most meat I eat was frozen.

If you mean that in a nutrient loss from freezing sort of way, well, yeah...

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I thought smoked foods were bad because of the nitrates.

I add no additives!

Besides, nitrates are far away from being as bad as they are made out to be. The other additives normally found in smoked products are much much worse.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Thanks for the link. I read about 20 pages. I agree with most of the things they are saying. The guy (Dr. Al Sears) that I get a lot of my information from says most of the same things that it says in that book.

I suggest you buy the book. While there are similarities between Sears and the NT book, there are going to be some sharp differences.

The stuff you weren't agreeing with?? Could you be disagreeing because it runs counter to the information you learned from Dr. Sears, or someone like him?

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yes. I know it's FAR better fresh, but when you have 100s of pounds, there ain't much you can do.

I'm thinking you probably meant that question as in do I freeze my meat (ha ha) before eating it, to ensure food safety. If that's the question, that is nothing I concern myself with. Sadly, most meat I eat was frozen.

If you mean that in a nutrient loss from freezing sort of way, well, yeah...

I guess my concern was that the meat could get contaminated while thawing out. And seriously, you eat raw pig?

[Danzig]

i won't eat raw oysters, let alone pork or beef. i'm a huge prometheus fan.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

I guess my concern was that the meat could get contaminated while thawing out. And seriously, you eat raw pig?

Trichinosis is so 100 BC.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i won't eat raw oysters, let alone pork or beef. i'm a huge prometheus fan.

what is prometheus?

[Danzig]

prometheus supposedly took fire from the gods and gave it to man. you never heard of 'prometheus bound'? as punishment for giving the gift of fire, he was chained to a rock and birds ate his liver. and every day the liver came back so they could eat it again.

all i can figure is they drank a lot of wine in those days to come up with stuff like that.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

prometheus supposedly took fire from the gods and gave it to man. you never heard of 'prometheus bound'? as punishment for giving the gift of fire, he was chained to a rock and birds ate his liver. and every day the liver came back so they could eat it again.

all i can figure is they drank a lot of wine in those days to come up with stuff like that.

Yeah, I know about Prometheus.

I thought you were talking about some sort of redneckish, I mean Southern, type of prepared food product!

[herkhorse]

Carnivore girls , you're not alone IC. I love good sushi, but I don't know about this.

business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/06/raw-meat-sushi-brings-out-japans-carnivore-girls/

edit. can't get the link to work, but google raw meat sushi

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Carnivore girls , you're not alone IC. I love good sushi, but I don't know about this.

business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/06/raw-meat-sushi-brings-out-japans-carnivore-girls/

edit. can't get the link to work, but google raw meat sushi

It's delicious.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, I know about Prometheus.

I thought you were talking about some sort of redneckish, I mean Southern, type of prepared food product!

too many syllables to use as a brand name here.