Doug O'Neill

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Depends, can you say for sure what is in the water besides baking soda and glucose?

Based on him getting caught several times for the use of illicit drugs in his horses, and the known masking abilities of the milkshake, I'm going to say there is nothing overtly harmful in that question I posed to Danzig above. Baking soda, glucose and a couple of other innocuous items.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Hmm.

I'm not sure where I said, or even implied anything about Doug O'Neill being picked on unfairly, but I guess these days if someone disagrees with you you can simply read anything into what the dissenter says.

Again, I was unaware of the masking properties of milkshaking when I posted my question. I'm not sure why that is hard for you to understand.

Another thing, why do trainers use lasix on horses that aren't bleeding? Is it something the horse is deficient in, and will not race well without? Like, kind of having a vitamin or mineral deficiency?

Finally, given a choice with a gun pointed to your head. Would you choose to get lasix injected into you, or swallow a glass of water with baking soda and glucose?

er, my top comment was regarding the portion of the article underneath. it had nothing whatsoever to do with you or the milshake discussion. not sure why you thought it was pointed towards you. i said poor doug and then showed an excerpt from an article about how he says he's being picked on.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

er, my top comment was regarding the portion of the article underneath. it had nothing whatsoever to do with you or the milshake discussion. not sure why you thought it was pointed towards you. i said poor doug and then showed an excerpt from an article about how he says he's being picked on.

My mistake.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, O'Neill is a scumbag. Probably stems from a white trash background is my guess.

I am curious about something though. If milkshaking is so great at masking drugs, how is it that he gets caught? Does he not milkshake the horses that he uses illegal meds in?????????????

That would be pretty dumb on his part, if he is indeed using sodium bicarb to mask drugs.

because it's not an exact science? we all know different horses metabolize differently.
with the amount of times he's been caught, you've got to wonder how often he cheats.
the fact that many trainers have zero positives tells quite a tale as well. btw, if his position is that their testing is flawed, wouldn't it be popping multiple trainers?

as for the milkshaking, since it's currently banned, i feel zero pity for those who use it. unlike lasix, it seems it has a masking quality and enhances performance. using something that's banned is an attempt to give yourself an edge that others won't have, as they won't break the rules. nor should they.

[tector]

I don't think the masking effect is firmly established, and, if it occurs, may only apply to some drugs and not others.

http://bit.ly/JJgpPH

[slotdirt]

So based on the stats used by NYT, is Doug O'Neill basically the trainer version of Ruidoso Downs?

[HaloWishingwell]

Just bringing some positive to the week...

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/tr...-team-o-neill/

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by tector

I don't think the masking effect is firmly established, and, if it occurs, may only apply to some drugs and not others.

http://bit.ly/JJgpPH

I rue the day I used Let Me Google That For You on here to answer someone sarcastically.

Not sure why you used that on me, as I have a pretty solid understanding of sodium bicarbonate (I have read books on it's use in humans).

You know what is kind of silly about the idea of using bicarbonates as a diuretic to flush drugs?

It's that there is a really safe, common and totally legal substance that is a highly effective diuretic. It's called dihydrogen monoxide.

Some will say it's dangerous stuff though, which you can read about here. I use this all the time however to increase urine output in myself.

http://tinyurl.com/yhtm2aq

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by tector

This is one of the comments to the NYT article:

why would a horse still be racing with a chronic suspensory problem?

[slotdirt]

I'm going to go ahead and say that, rightly or wrongly, there are plenty of horses out there running with a chronic suspensory issue.

[Indian Charlie]

I've done some more reading on this stuff I previously stated (in my post above) was a safe and effective diuretic, and I think I'm going to have to retract my earlier statement.

I cannot believe they give this stuff to horses after all!

http://www.dhmo.org/truth/Dihydrogen-Monoxide.html

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm going to go ahead and say that, rightly or wrongly, there are plenty of horses out there running with a chronic suspensory issue.

you could very well be correct. especially at the low level tracks. But when you hear the word "chronic" and it has to do with a ligament or tendon, it is best for the horse too be off munching grass somewhere.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

My mistake.

i went back and re-read your response to see if i missed anything. you asked why lasix was given to horses who don't bleed.
from the other lasix discussion begun yesterday, it appears there's no way to know when a horse will suffer a bleeding episode, and of course you'd also have no way of knowing the severity of a bleeding-since you don't know one's coming til it's there.
imo, better to prevent an episode that may come, since there's no way to know ahead of time.
we'd all be better off if we knew when things were going to happen!
also, if a horse suddenly had an episode, the damage could be permanent. i feel it's better to err and prevent, than not use something that's available and be left with a lung-damaged horse.

[TouchOfGrey]

Now on the front page of Yahoo!: Derby-winning trainer's shady past

[tector]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I rue the day I used Let Me Google That For You on here to answer someone sarcastically.

Not sure why you used that on me,

Because I'm even a bigger douche bag than you? That's what they used to say back in the day. And those horsey girls were never wrong!

I do know you have a lot of knowledge on some of these issues, so I was not implying to the contrary. My knowledge of drugs is lesser in scope, but perhaps more...hands on, but limited to humans. And cats.

[Antitrust32]

hahah!

[pointman]

I guess he didn't get the nickmame Drug O'Neill by mistake.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by tector

Because I'm even a bigger douche bag than you? That's what they used to say back in the day. And those horsey girls were never wrong!

I do know you have a lot of knowledge on some of these issues, so I was not implying to the contrary. My knowledge of drugs is lesser in scope, but perhaps more...hands on, but limited to humans. And cats.

Wow, I've been called dogmatic and a douche bag in the last 24 hours!

I don't think I've ever been called either before, but I've been called worse.

[Cajungator26]

Some of the comments on that article are laughable. One person said something about Ferdinand, the "triple crown winner". Wow.

[Kasept]

Seabiscuit trainer Tom Smith's suspension the year before his Derby win with Jet Pilot:
http://www.governmentlaw.org/files/t..._tom_smith.pdf