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[GenuineRisk]

But we all agree contraceptives are good for preventing pregnancy in the first place, yes?

I think that part, contraceptives, is where the middle ground will be found, because both sides have their stance on it, which, at this point in our knowledge of science and spirituality, depend on a gut feeling (on both sides, really). And no one thinks it's a good position for a woman to be in, having to decide to abort. So why isn't everyone in the public sphere focusing on reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies in the first place? What do you guys think?

Thanks for giving me a discussing that went heated and then calm as opinions, feelings, etc. did actually get clarified. Dude, if you guys were in Congress, stuff might actually get done...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

But we all agree contraceptives are good for preventing pregnancy in the first place, yes?

I think that part, contraceptives, is where the middle ground will be found, because both sides have their stance on it, which, at this point in our knowledge of science and spirituality, depend on a gut feeling (on both sides, really). And no one thinks it's a good position for a woman to be in, having to decide to abort. So why isn't everyone in the public sphere focusing on reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies in the first place? What do you guys think?

Thanks for giving me a discussing that went heated and then calm as opinions, feelings, etc. did actually get clarified. Dude, if you guys were in Congress, stuff might actually get done...

Genuine Risk,
I'll just tell you that it all comes down to one thing...aspirin.
Yup! You heard me...aspirin.
It's one of the remedies that the "Vatican" hasn't condemned despite their infinite wisdom, insighting the Muslims, starting crusades, inquisitions and all of their "devine interpretation" and "spin" of Jesus's words.
None of the "saints" will object.
Aspirin (bayer or generic) is really the answer to this one.
It works for the head aches...and we've had more than plenty of those lately.
Here's how it's done:
1) Take aspirin out of pill box.
2) Smile alluringly by female at "love interest".
3) Place aspirin firmly between knees and squeeze.
4) Get "love interest" a beer if you can hop to the fridge. He'll calm down after the third or fourth one.
5) Then it might be safe to remove the aspirin. If not, make "eggs Benedict".

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

But we all agree contraceptives are good for preventing pregnancy in the first place, yes?

I think that part, contraceptives, is where the middle ground will be found, because both sides have their stance on it, which, at this point in our knowledge of science and spirituality, depend on a gut feeling (on both sides, really). And no one thinks it's a good position for a woman to be in, having to decide to abort. So why isn't everyone in the public sphere focusing on reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies in the first place? What do you guys think?

Thanks for giving me a discussing that went heated and then calm as opinions, feelings, etc. did actually get clarified. Dude, if you guys were in Congress, stuff might actually get done...

so true. the problem is that both sides see how to do that differently. nobody likes abortion. nobody. but the far right wants to paint any pro-choicer as a murderer, and the far left wants to paint the pro-lifers and loony Christians.

We stop this joke about abstinence-only sex education right off. No matter where in the country, conservative, liberal, rural, urban, it does not matter.

I would actually say that the one thing we can all agree on is that we want fewer abortions. How we get there is another matter. To me though, from looking at the history of abortion, outlawing it is not even close to the way to do that.

luckily the people on this board are by and large rational, intelligent people, so we're able to have this kind of discussion without resorting to calling names and getting so mad at each other that we refuse to talk.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

in what way? if you don't want to have an abortion, then don't get one. simple as that.

sound scientific study generally refutes many of the ideas that the anti-abortion team purports to be true, ie items about fetuses feeling pain etc etc. Their only argument is that life begins at conception -- and since we cannot PROVE that, then keep your hands off it. If they could prove that, then they wouldn't have to lie about things like the pain issue.

So what am I missing?

Try a film called 'the silent scream'. It shows conclusively that fetuses feel pain. Sound scientific study? Abortion mills generate millions of dollars. Planned Parenthood? Find out the true intentions of Margaret Sanger,founder of PP. A real role model,that one? Sometimes..I wonder why I bother!!

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Here, C@C, this'll make you feel better. Now you just have to hope for Pres. Clinton or Obama in '08!

http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/21/mark...ion_demsvreps/

Yea! Whatever!

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And a more in-depth article on the economy and which party is in the White House:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._05/006282.php

At least I liked what I heard what comments some online users had to say

Blah!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Try a film called 'the silent scream'. It shows conclusively that fetuses feel pain. Sound scientific study? Abortion mills generate millions of dollars. Planned Parenthood? Find out the true intentions of Margaret Sanger,founder of PP. A real role model,that one? Sometimes..I wonder why I bother!!

i absolutely cannot believe that you just referred me to one of the most misguided, untrue pieces of anti-abortion propoganda in order to try to stake a claim that a fetus feels pain.

it shows nothing conclusively except that anti-abortion activists will lie and say anything they need to in order to try to sway public opinion.

there is no cerebral cortex at 12 weeks and no way for there to be nerves communicating with the brain, rendering the ability to perceive, or receive pain impulses unequivically impossible. this slight oversight on the part of the producers also dispels their myth that the fetus is frantically "trying to get away" because it cannot cognizantly recognize anything at this stage, so these movements are all reflexive due to the entrance of the tools into the uterus.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

i absolutely cannot believe that you just referred me to one of the most misguided, untrue pieces of anti-abortion propoganda in order to try to stake a claim that a fetus feels pain.

it shows nothing conclusively except that anti-abortion activists will lie and say anything they need to in order to try to sway public opinion.

there is no cerebral cortex at 12 weeks and no way for there to be nerves communicating with the brain, rendering the ability to perceive, or receive pain impulses unequivically impossible. this slight oversight on the part of the producers also dispels their myth that the fetus is frantically "trying to get away" because it cannot cognizantly recognize anything at this stage, so these movements are all reflexive due to the entrance of the tools into the uterus.

OK,Sheep! You have to live with your answers. Frankly,I don't think you have a clue!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

OK,Sheep! You have to live with your answers. Frankly,I don't think you have a clue!

how am i "sheep" when i am not just taking what is thrown in front of me as the truth? instead i am questioning all of the false claims made in the movie.

that film is very widely regarded as nothing but utter propoganda, and any research into the claims made in the film would expose it as such -- as i so kindly did for you in the last post i just made.

you can pretend that the science doesn't support the things i just wrote, but i would contend then that you'd be the sheep -- just hanging with the flock and pretending that things are true, just so you can feel better about the stance you take.

have fun with that one. facts and research always trump propoganda -- at least to intelligent people.

[timmgirvan]

Pal, you believe in evolution! Have you read anything in the press about scientists becoming more disenchanted with evolution every day? Believe what you want....you're gonna really be surprised.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Pal, you believe in evolution! Have you read anything in the press about scientists becoming more disenchanted with evolution every day? Believe what you want....you're gonna really be surprised.

well i'll certainly take the small chance of being proven wrong about evolution in the future over pretending that some wacko right-wing propoganda "science" says that a 12 week fetus can feel pain any day.

at least there is some evidence to back evolution up, whereas there is no evidence whatsoever that to back the claim that a 12 week fetus feels pain....unless "silent scream" is evidence hahahahahahha, what a piece of **** video.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

at least there is some evidence to back evolution up, whereas there is no evidence whatsoever that to back the claim that a 12 week fetus feels pain....unless "silent scream" is evidence hahahahahahha, what a piece of **** video.

oh man, sorry for laughing i just still can't get over how a grown person would try to use that video to back up their views.....

laugher of the week, without a doubt,

[timmgirvan]

I repeat: you don't have a clue! But, enjoy the rest of the many features this fabulous site has,like Esoteric...that ones' for you!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I repeat: you don't have a clue! But, enjoy the rest of the many features this fabulous site has,like Esoteric...that ones' for you!

dude i will listen once you finally make a point.

saying "you don't have a clue" means nothing. it just shows that you have nothing at all to say for yourself and your ridiculous claims.

and i'm okay with the fact that you have no way of backing yourself up and your super awesome suggestion of watching 'silent scream' (a total hoot by the way, i enjoyed every minute of it because it's so ridiculous, so thanks for the entertainment value tonight).

let's just call a spade a spade and level on the fact that you have no clue what you're talking about, or even what point you're trying to make.

[timmgirvan]

You could read a book,huh?....so look it up...I don't normally argue with kids!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You could read a book,huh?....so look it up...I don't normally argue with kids!

case and point. i'm going to bed. you're not even saying anything -- you're being ridiculous just for the sake of being ridiculous.

if you've got anything of value, or even that makes sense, to say then by all means say it. i have more than acquitted myself this afternoon of being open to having a discussion and being oopen to hearing ideas.

and not "normally arguing with kids" holds no weight. i'm more than mature enough to entertain your off-the-radar insightful comments. it's something i would say if a young guy was completely serving my ass to me on a plate in a discussion and i had nothing else to say. kudos on that escape route.

so if you get any ideas, then by all means share them. until then --there's no reason to entertain this 'conversation' any further because only one of us is even making sense and saying anything other than "you don't have a clue." "you don't have a clue" "you don't have a clue" (all insightful comments based on their own merit , but not conducive to discussion)....hint: that person is not you.

sweet dreams man, may intelligence and coherent thought come to you in the coming days.

[timmgirvan]

Have a nice trip back to the College Football Board,Brian!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Have a nice trip back to the College Football Board,Brian!

i'm dissappointed. that last comment shows that you're only treating me this way because of my age -- that's sad.

but for the record, 1.) i am done with college 2.) i don't even like college football. the extent to which i follow it consists only of knowing when University of Michigan has a home game so I can avoid the traffic by Michigan Stadium on my way to work.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

i'm dissappointed. that last comment shows that you're only treating me this way because of my age -- that's sad.

but for the record, 1.) i am done with college 2.) i don't even like college football. the extent to which i follow it consists only of knowing when University of Michigan has a home game so I can avoid the traffic by Michigan Stadium on my way to work.

Hey Brian: let's clear the slate,huh? I know you're young, and I shouldn't disrespect you because of your age. So,I apologize. It's just that I hear so much of the same stuff from kids with little or no life experience,and don't understand the ramifications of actions. So,maybe in a while, I'll discuss subjects with you,but don't sell yourself short and follow the social lines...find the real truth. This IS the best site for HR...don't sell it short,either. Timm

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Hey Brian: let's clear the slate,huh? I know you're young, and I shouldn't disrespect you because of your age. So,I apologize. It's just that I hear so much of the same stuff from kids with little or no life experience,and don't understand the ramifications of actions. So,maybe in a while, I'll discuss subjects with you,but don't sell yourself short and follow the social lines...find the real truth. This IS the best site for HR...don't sell it short,either. Timm

i can deal with that. clean slate.

i will never purport to have the wisdom or life experience that many of the members here may have -- that's a given because of the age. however, i've got quite a story to tell from my 23 years. they've been full of more great and more horrible things than i care to revisit, which is why i get frustrated beyond belief when people have a preconceived notion of what my life is like, the intelligence i may or may not have and the life experiences i may or may not have had. you would likely be surprised.

as long as we can agree that i don't really know you and you don't really know me, then these conversations are fine. this is ONE of the very few things that I am stupid passionate about from more personal experiences with friends than any male should have, so I don't consider this an issue on which I am following social lines. You're free to dispute that, but as long as I've put that out there, I feel better about it.

and yes, this is the best place for horse racing i've just been missing out the whole time until last month when i finally checked it out.