not to beat a dead horse but, ...

Isnt that what people from India have on their foreheads?

[Buffymommy]

Are you guys this upset that Real Quiet only lost by a tiny nose... or that Silver Charm didn't get it ya know they did take the horse wide so SC wouldn't see him and fight back... Or what about War Emblem, did they make him trip on purpose...


Just saying that it is horse racing. Things happen to make a horse win or lose. Racing Luck.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Are you guys this upset that Real Quiet only lost by a tiny nose... or that Silver Charm didn't get it ya know they did take the horse wide so SC wouldn't see him and fight back... Or what about War Emblem, did they make him trip on purpose...


Just saying that it is horse racing. Things happen to make a horse win or lose. Racing Luck.

So the 11 won it were lucky and that's that?

Look, rabbits have been used throughtout the game. For instance, Damascus had Hedevar to wear out Dr. Fager in the '67 Woodward. The thing about it is they were both trained (I believe,not owned) by the same person and Hedevar was there only to benefit Damascus. In the case of Bailey and Solis, the perception (right or wrong) is they took on the front end for one reason only...to wear down SJ and take him out of his race. And who did it benefit? What about any bettors that had RHT or Eddington in their exotics?

Serious questions on taking horses out of their running styles and why, if there is proof out there that is what they were instructed to do by the owner/trainer...that's one thing...if not that's why the ?? are always going to be ask.

[Revolution]

Great horses find ways to win. Very good ones do not. Smarty, like Ghostzapper and Candy Ride was very good, not great.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Does it come with microdot or do you have to buy that yourself?

NOW THATS FUNNY.....

[slotdirt]

Karaoke revolution...

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

So the 11 won it were lucky and that's that?

Look, rabbits have been used throughtout the game. For instance, Damascus had Hedevar to wear out Dr. Fager in the '67 Woodward. The thing about it is they were both trained (I believe,not owned) by the same person and Hedevar was there only to benefit Damascus. In the case of Bailey and Solis, the perception (right or wrong) is they took on the front end for one reason only...to wear down SJ and take him out of his race. And who did it benefit? What about any bettors that had RHT or Eddington in their exotics?

Serious questions on taking horses out of their running styles and why, if there is proof out there that is what they were instructed to do by the owner/trainer...that's one thing...if not that's why the ?? are always going to be ask.

Why do you think it has taken this long for another horse to win it? I was just stating that everyone is mad about the Solis and Bailey rides and wants to punish them. Was everyone all up in arms about the 1988 Preakness when they did the same thing to Winning Colors? It is a part of racing. EVERYONE wants it to be their horse to win the triple crown.

Should Gary Stevens have held Victory Gallop up to let Real Quiet win? Now I am not saying I agree with what Solis and Bailey did, but just stating that why should we be talking about it still? Smarty was a very good horse. He just didn't win the triple crown.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Why do you think it has taken this long for another horse to win it? I was just stating that everyone is mad about the Solis and Bailey rides and wants to punish them. Was everyone all up in arms about the 1988 Preakness when they did the same thing to Winning Colors? It is a part of racing. EVERYONE wants it to be their horse to win the triple crown.

Should Gary Stevens have held Victory Gallop up to let Real Quiet win? Now I am not saying I agree with what Solis and Bailey did, but just stating that why should we be talking about it still? Smarty was a very good horse. He just didn't win the triple crown.

My points weren't if SJ was great horse or not, I have not interest in arguing that.....it's more of the problems with that race and why it's talked about the way it is. For instance, your SC explanation about them going wide...that a good ride to try and WIN....see my point?

I'm purely devastated that Affirmed, Slew, Secretariat, et. al. weren't great just lucky....LOL, The Bid had REALLY bad luck, that darn safety pin.

[Buffymommy]

Originally Posted by dr. fager

My points weren't if SJ was great horse or not, I have not interest in arguing that.....it's more of the problems with that race and why it's talked about the way it is. For instance, your SC explanation about them going wide...that a good ride to try and WIN....see my point?

I'm purely devastated that Affirmed, Slew, Secretariat, et. al. weren't great just lucky....LOL, The Bid had REALLY bad luck, that darn safety pin.

Affirmed, Slew, Secretariat, etc... were of a different era of horses. They were great ones yes. I meant the horses of today were going to need luck to prove their greatness in the triple crown.

People are devious and want their horse to win, not someone elses. That is what it boils down to Dr. Fager. Not nice, but that seems to be the way it is.

[blackthroatedwind]

This thread is better than microdot.

And one thing's for sure.....it's a flashback.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This thread is better than microdot.

And one thing's for sure.....it's a flashback.

HAHAHA! i get it now...

that would be optional, for improved gameplay. although since the "notes" you play along with are color-coded, it may inhibit your ability to become a "true guitar hero..."

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Affirmed, Slew, Secretariat, etc... were of a different era of horses. They were great ones yes. I meant the horses of today were going to need luck to prove their greatness in the triple crown.

People are devious and want their horse to win, not someone elses. That is what it boils down to Dr. Fager. Not nice, but that seems to be the way it is.

See, but that's what I was saying was the question to me is was Bailey trying to win the race....not in my opinion.

I have no issues with Damascus having Hedevar, Dr. Fager had his Achilles heel and that was he wouldn't rate and didn't like anyone in front of him. Have fun with him up to a mile though

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Buffymommy

Why do you think it has taken this long for another horse to win it? I was just stating that everyone is mad about the Solis and Bailey rides and wants to punish them. Was everyone all up in arms about the 1988 Preakness when they did the same thing to Winning Colors? It is a part of racing. EVERYONE wants it to be their horse to win the triple crown.

Should Gary Stevens have held Victory Gallop up to let Real Quiet win? Now I am not saying I agree with what Solis and Bailey did, but just stating that why should we be talking about it still? Smarty was a very good horse. He just didn't win the triple crown.

My thing is, it's a jocks job to put his horse in the best position to win the race..They didn't ride to win, they rode to beat Smarty and ensure he did not win the TC..Just look at Eddington..I'm pretty sure Bailey takes him to the whip a few times BEFORE they are half way down the BACKSTRETCH.There is a thin line between a bad rde and a crooked one, and it's blatantly obvious Bailey did not want to win that race..

[Bernardini]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

just got done watching that crime otherwise known as the Belmont Stakes 2004. The jockeys on RHTen and EDDIngton (eddington esp.) shouldve been stripped of their liscense to ride in NY..Smarty's preakness ranks in the top three races i have ever witnessed, as his dominance was well displayed..Stewie shouldve known that the "top tier" jockeys werent gonna let a drunken 5k claimer jock win the TC, a feat that neither of them have achieved..Smarty was a once in a lifetime horse and its a damn shame that it had to end like that..Absolutely pitiful..Who should take the brunt of the blame here??

How about Silverbulletday ? did she compromise Charismatic's chances ??

[todko]

Play the tape and watch Birdstone. He was motoring right along during the fast mid fractions. Actually starting gaining on the far turn. A slower pace and Smarty would have had to fight Birdstone earlier. Birdstone didn't get left behind during those fractions.

I don't believe that's a fight Smarty would have won. A protracted duel with a well trained, well rested, and well bred horse ridden by Edgar Prado at Belmont. Birdstone would have hooked him earlier and the late fractions would have been faster. And I believe the result would have been the same.

The time was right at 2:27. A very solid Belmont time. Better than Afleet Alex ran -- far better.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Originally Posted by Revolution

Great horses find ways to win. Very good ones do not. Smarty, like Ghostzapper and Candy Ride was very good, not great.

Wait, so you're saying that Ghostzapper isnt great, but didnt he find a way to win? How many horses are undefeated? Are they the only ones the all-mighty Revolution will call great? Man O War lost, Secretariat lost, does that make them not great because they couldnt find a way to win on that day? I'm really not sure what you're trying to say...but it doesnt make much sense to me.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think that the other jocks would be criticized no matter what they did. I think that if they would have taken their horses back, people would have criticized them for giving Smarty an easy lead.

I'm very sursprised that anyone would be angry at Solis or Bailey. I think that there are a number of things that got Smarty beat in the Belmont. The fast pace was a factor. The distance was a factor. The fact that the race was his 5th race in 11 weeks was a huge factor. The fact that Elliot asked the horse for everything and won the Preakness by 11 lengths, instead of winning by 5 lengths under a strangle-hold was a huge factor. Elliot made a huge mistake winning the Preakness by 11 lengths. I think he pretty much squeezed the lemon dry.

I think that Smarty was a great horse. I think that if even one of those factors that I mentioned would have been different, I think that Smarty could have won the race.

.......exactly, thats why so few horses have won the triple crown......... smarty was simply not good enough and the jock
choked big time.

[kgar311]

I cant believe all the crying ealier in these posts about, well if he had it his own way and nobody challenged him he would of won. Thats a bunch of horse s*it. If he was an alltime great he would of fought off all challenges. You dont let a horse waltz to a triple crown. Praise be to Bailey for challenging him down the backside. And ah Elliot didnt have to pull a Secretariat move down the back side either. SJ was no tremendous machine.

[pmayjr]

Revolution- Don't list the 'Zapper as good. He was great... He was an f'n machine. That's why he went out on top. It's just too bad we live in an age of ****in pussies who won't race their horses after they win a single Grade 1... The stud $$$ will come. Another bad thing about Barbaro's leg, is that just slams home this paranoid theory that owners have that "you better cash in on the stud $$$ now before your horse gets hurt and is worthless".

Sorry, kinda went off on a tangent. But what I was getting at there is horses don't race long enough anymore to know if they're truly great over time. Some have "great" spurts. But that's all they're capable of proving anymore because they don't race long enough and their starts are so infrequent in between.

OH YEAH- SORRY FOR THE CAPS, BUT FOR THE MAIN PART OF THIS DISCUSSION-

I believe Bailey did try to run Smarty into the ground by rushing Eddington to the lead. But! Smarty still has to beat him, learn to rate, run his own race. So it still falls on Smarty to find a way to win.

[randallscott35]

You know I guess the thing I am struck by at the beginning at this thread is the lack of respect for Birdstone. On his day with proper rest he ran some very fast races. He was a really good horse, not some tin cup Commendable winning the Belmont. He got the trip but he still had to run an A race to beat Smarty.....I was surprised Smarty lost but race riding is a fact of life and something you need to get over.