Steve Nash

[Gander]

I saw Mike Jordan play, he was good. But Bird was Bird. More of a team player. Jordan was all about Mikey.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by pgardn

You are kidding. You look only at stats I guess. He has been an Allstar every year. Rookie of the year. 3 NBA championships... HOly Cow waddya want. If the Spurs did not have Duncan now or any year they would barely make the playoffs if at all.
Duncan has the best hands of any big man ever. Thats what allows him to have the most varied post moves of any player in NBA history. He is now in his downhill physical years. So he has to rely even more on saavy than he used to . ANd he was injured last year. He could have been the leading scorer in a number of years if he played on a team like Phoenix but he plays on a team that is more concerned about taking time off the clock on offense, and playing shut down defense.

Hilarious.

You say I'm only looking at stats, then you list off Duncan's Cirriculum Vitae Highlights?

Look, do you think Duncan would have had great games against McHale? I don't. He played well against Malone but certainly didn't dominate him. McHale shut down a lot of very good players and would have blocked 2-3 of those 12-foot bank shots Duncan needs to survive every game. And frankly McHale in the low post would have made Duncan look really slow at times.

Hey, I'm not saying Duncan sucks; just that I wouldn't put him in my top 3 at Power Forward.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Well, I put MAravich in my top 3 along with Jordan and Oscar, so there it is.

As far as xones and doubles, did you ever see Pete play in college? Guy averaged over 42 points a game EVERY year (with no 3-point line). It's not as if they didn't play any D against him in college.

He would have scored 35 a game in the NBA if he was playing now.

How good would Jordan or Oscar have been if they were playing without a left coronary artery?

Maravich goes on the Harlem Globetrotter list... with Calvin Murphy. He did the same thing at LSU, shot the ball all the time. And I dont know how playing without a left coronary artery affected his shot. It may have affected stamina. But he played some big minutes so not too much. His injuries were not related to his heart.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Hilarious.

You say I'm only looking at stats, then you list off Duncan's Cirriculum Vitae Highlights?

Look, do you think Duncan would have had great games against McHale? I don't. He played well against Malone but certainly didn't dominate him. McHale shut down a lot of very good players and would have blocked 2-3 of those 12-foot bank shots Duncan needs to survive every game. And frankly McHale in the low post would have made Duncan look really slow at times.

Hey, I'm not saying Duncan sucks; just that I wouldn't put him in my top 3 at Power Forward.

Duncan can score over anybody, anytime. He has too many moves. I will say McHale had quicker pivot moves, but not Close to the left hand Duncan has. Duncan scores in everyway, McHale would have had a terribly difficult time guarding him just like Kevin Garnett does because Duncan is much much stronger in the lower body. Duncan is underrated a lot like McHale because of no flash, no hops. And yes, no Larry. McHale was helped by Larry, but I still think he was very very good.

[SentToStud]

My all-funk team from the 70's-80's, chosen mostly for hair size and nicknames:

Center: Artis "A Train" Gilmore
Forward: George "Instant Heat" Trapp
Forward: Julius "Doctor J" Erving
Guard: Walt "Clyde" Frazier
Guard: Connie Hawkins

[GPK]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

My all-funk team from the 70's-80's, chosen mostly for hair size and nicknames:

Center: Artis "A Train" Gilmore
Forward: George "Instant Heat" Trapp
Forward: Julius "Doctor J" Erving
Guard: Walt "Clyde" Frazier
Guard: Connie Hawkins

any all funk team that doesn't include Wolrd B. Free is an incomplete list....

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Duncan can score over anybody, anytime. He has too many moves. I will say McHale had quicker pivot moves, but not Close to the left hand Duncan has. Duncan scores in everyway, McHale would have had a terribly difficult time guarding him just like Kevin Garnett does because Duncan is much much stronger in the lower body. Duncan is underrated a lot like McHale because of no flash, no hops. And yes, no Larry. McHale was helped by Larry, but I still think he was very very good.

Well, for all the hops, Garnett is not the greatest defensive forward there ever was. I suppose I'd be more admiring about Duncan if he played against the Eastern Conference instead of the Power-Forwardless West.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

My all-funk team from the 70's-80's, chosen mostly for hair size and nicknames:

Center: Artis "A Train" Gilmore
Forward: George "Instant Heat" Trapp
Forward: Julius "Doctor J" Erving
Guard: Walt "Clyde" Frazier
Guard: Connie Hawkins

I will give you huge funk. DARNELL HILLMAN ABA... AKA DR. DUNK

check the fro.. Be sure to scroll down to catch the entirety of the funkiness

http://www.remembertheaba.com/Tribut...l/Hillman.html

Honest to God the guy could jump out of the gym. Huge hands, and huge unsophisticated dunks... just from a straight stand underneath the bucket.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Well, for all the hops, Garnett is not the greatest defensive forward there ever was. I suppose I'd be more admiring about Duncan if he played against the Eastern Conference instead of the Power-Forwardless West.

Duncan trashed Ben Wallace. So they put sheed on him and brought Wallace over. Duncan can score over any center forward in the league because of the array of shots. He has the smoothest postmoves... I hate the name the big fundamental. But for a guy who started BBall late, its pretty incredible how good his footwork is.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Duncan trashed Ben Wallace. So they put sheed on him and brought Wallace over. Duncan can score over any center forward in the league because of the array of shots. He has the smoothest postmoves... I hate the name the big fundamental. But for a guy who started BBall late, its pretty incredible how good his footwork is.

.

I'll conclude... Duncan has always been slow and I just don't care for his game as much as others may. Plus, he always looks as if he's about to cry.

In the end, I'd rate him below Elvin Hayes but ertainly above Kurt Rambis.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I will end if you can give me a player with better hands and a better post scorer than Duncan. You are watching an all time great in Tim, Tim. I think, I thought, you did not like NBA basketball so how can you rate if you dont watch the games? And the guy has the same first name as you and is nothing but a gentleman. Although he gripes way too much now.

David Robinson was a much better athlete than Tim Duncan, but not even close as a basketball player. I think Robinson is overrated. He was the best athlete to ever play center imo, but a very ordinary basketball player. There, hows that for Spur bias.

....... tim makes my 2nd team as power foward........ he plays the game the way it should be played..... my 1st team goes
1. wilt chamberlain ( the most dominant athlete of all time )
2. larry bird
3.michael jordan
4. jerry west
5. ervin johnson

2nd team
1. lew alcindor
2. tim duncan
3. elgin baylor
4. kobe bryant
5. oscar robertson

[Seattleallstar]

Tim Duncan is overrated, keep in mind Andres Nocioni made him his bitch along with Kevin Garnett.

Wheres Hakeem O, Billy Cunningham, a whole host of others.



Most overrated NBA player imo has to be Robert Parish

[King Glorious]

When discussing Kevin McHale, it's important to note that most of his prime years came when he was playing with Larry Bird. It's important because McHale was never the focal point of the offense. If he had been, I have little doubt that he would have gone on to erase a lot of the doubts people have about him. He was one of the best inside men I've ever seen. Footwork was second to none, save for maybe Hakeem Olajuwon. He didn't commit to rebounding as much as I would have liked but defensively, he was far above average. I don't know exactly where I would rank him against Karl Malone and Charles Barkley but for my money, those are the three best ever. And I'd take all three over Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett in a heartbeat. That's not to say that Duncan and Garnett aren't all-time great players because they are. But not with those other three in my opinion. My selections for an all-time 12 man roster:

1st team
c-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
f-Hakeem Olajuwon
f-Larry Bird
g-John Stockton
g-Michael Jordan

2nd team
c-Wilt Chamberlain
f-Bill Russell
f-Charles Barkley
g-Magic Johnson
g-Pete Maravich

last two
Oscar Robertson
Dennis Rodman

People who have watched Duncan and are not astounded with the footwork just dont know basketball. That what I gotta conclude. Both hands with the baby hook straight in, off the backboard...

There just are no other big men that had/have extensive use of both hands like Duncan, which requires the ability to be able to pivot off either foot equally well. Therefore, best footwork EVER. And best hands ever. You can throw him a pass in almost any position and he catches it without a bobble thus allowing him to get a move in quickly before he gets closed in on. I will admit he is physically he is in his downhill years.

Hakeem had great pivot moves in that they were so quick, and used for his little fall away or a move back to the basket. But no use of both hands for either McHale or Hakeem.

Im sorry, but its not close. Not at all. Ive watched all of these guys extensively (ie their entire careers)

What is astounding about Hakeem is he was absolutely terrible as a freshman at UH. His soccer skills must have added in his very steep learning curve. People also used to compare Patrick Ewing with Hakeem. This is also a joke. Ewing was not even close to the player Hakeem was. Ewing was terribly immobile in comparison to the aforementioned. He had a very good baseline jumpshot which allowed him to remain a competent center well after his athleticism left him.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by turdbucket67

all i know is that bird isn't even close to being in the top 20 players ever!!!! lets be honest, there are atleast 10 players playing today that would school bird on the court

TB, how old are you??

[GPK]

Originally Posted by turdbucket67

22... i've seen him on espn classic all the time(its not the same, but i feel like i got a good idea of how good he is)

lebron has to be in the top 5... he's 21 and he averages 27 points 7boards and 6 assist in his career already... and its only going to get better..... ask wasington(in the playoffs) if lebron can take over a game

bro, I think the world of you, but unless you saw LB night in and night out, like myself and a few others on here, you really have NO idea of how good he really was. I can remember watch him play and players from the OTHER TEAM were giving each other high fives over the shots and plays that he would make. And please, understand another thing, Bird played in the NBA when it was still a TEAM game. The crap that they play in the NBA now is nothing near the game they played in the 80's. If Bird played today's version of the game and took the same selfish approach that too many of these players now take, he would have averaged 35-38 points a night with his eyes closed. But again, he played under a team concept and simply made other players around him so much better.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by turdbucket67

do u think he is better then lebron???

Lebron (hopefully) has a long time left in his career to prove that he is one of the greats of all time.

I lost any respect I had for Lebron the night he walked off the court early in a loss. Incredibly selfish move that typifies todays NBA player.

I promise you that many people my age a older on this board will echo this sentiment, but there wasn't a harder worker on the court than LB. No one in the game gave 100% night in a night out like that guy.

If you want to see what a real basketball TEAM looked like, go back and watch some games from the 1986 Celtics....at your age, you would be amazed at the ball movement you will see from those guys. 6 and 7 passes AFTER half court before anyone even shot the ball. Now, you are lucky to see 2 passes before some wannabe is chucking up a shot. That team from 1986 could beat teams anyway they wanted to....slow it down and play a half court game, they could run if needed, they could play defense...you name, they did it.

[timmgirvan]

Don't forget the TrailBlazers champ team...they're a prime example of teamwork at its' best!

[GPK]

as an interesting side note, bit of trivia...

Bill Hodges, who was Larry's coach at Indiana State now is living here in Roanoke teaching government at a local high school.

[GPK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BOAwpMZKpk

from the 1:22-1:42 seconds of this video still gives me chill bumps. Got love Johnny Most doing the call.