not such a bad idea IMO

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

jocks pay a per mount fee.

thank you. and now i know more than i did this morning.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

As a rider did you ever know or have suspicions that one of the trainers that you were ridng for was illegally medicating some of his horses that you might or might not have been riding?

I dont know exactly what you mean by that , did I know that some horses were blocked for races yes I knew but I had got on them in the mornings and so I pretty much knew how bad they were. Did I know if a trainer gave to much bute or something like that not a clue, but I can tell you I would know if they tapped them or something like that because usually they would be moving better.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Honu

I dont know exactly what you mean by that , did I know that some horses were blocked for races yes I knew but I had got on them in the mornings and so I pretty much knew how bad they were. Did I know if a trainer gave to much bute or something like that not a clue, but I can tell you I would know if they tapped them or something like that because usually they would be moving better.

I am not sure what you meant by blocked. The point I was trying to make was, that if you had a hunch or maybe even knew that a trainer you were riding for was jucing horses, how could you be suprised if he was flagged and you didn't get your cut. I think you as a jockey are in a very bad place, because if you know what are you supposed to do? Report the trainer and maybe face a backlash from the rest of the trainers and colony. Or maybe just not ride the horse, but if it is a smalltime track, maybe mounts are tough to come by. Plus you know someone else will just pick up the original mount anyway. If you have no idea and the horse gets flagged then you get screwed out of your cut. It just seems to be a bad situation either way.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I am not sure what you meant by blocked. The point I was trying to make was, that if you had a hunch or maybe even knew that a trainer you were riding for was jucing horses, how could you be suprised if he was flagged and you didn't get your cut. I think you as a jockey are in a very bad place, because if you know what are you supposed to do? Report the trainer and maybe face a backlash from the rest of the trainers and colony. Or maybe just not ride the horse, but if it is a smalltime track, maybe mounts are tough to come by. Plus you know someone else will just pick up the original mount anyway. If you have no idea and the horse gets flagged then you get screwed out of your cut. It just seems to be a bad situation either way.

Heres the thing , as a jockey I didnt know what the limits were for meds. or withdrawl times, now that I have been more involved in day to day training I know what the rules are.
I have scratched horses in the post parade when I just felt that it was not safe to ride or let the horse run. I also have riden horses that are cheap and have bad arthritis or whatever that take a long time to warm up but usually I was a pretty good judge of when to hold em and when to fold em.
There were their times when a trainer would say hey ,"this horse is gonna run diffirent or better today , we did some work on him"., Most of the time I had a clue like they must have injected them, or whatever but to be honest I didn't know if what they did passed the test. I would handicap the race in the room and if when I came to the paddock and the trainer said "hey lil jock this horse is ready to go " lol was I suposed to ask him for a promise that the horse was gonna pass the spit box if we won?

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

alotta trainers cheat in this game, small things, little things that most are unaware of, its to the extent that some will go which is disturbing. from the way this threads been going should a jock get paid by the trainer for not doing"enough" that he or she shouldnt have been when the horse still runs up the trackLOL? if some of you had any idea how many sore horses youve bet on, watched run, and cashed tickets on itd make you sick

[Honu]

Most trainers at cheap tracks dont have the money or the means to find out what is bothering a horse as far as X rays and nukes scans and such. Most cheap tracks dont have a vet clinic where you can take the horses and have them properly x rayed , as at most cheap tracks they do it in the shed with a hand held x ray device. Most time owners dont wanna have a bill for blocking a horse out then x raying them and then treating them for the problem , so what to do ? I have ridden horses that were blocked for races because it was cheaper for the trainer to do that than charge the owner for alot of other stuff. Sad as it may be that is the way it is, at cheap tracks people do what is they have to to get results , is it right ? I dont know, I know that the horses I work with now, the owners have alot of money and if they didnt care about the well being of their horses they wouldnt be in our barn , I am lucky. Still the point is should the jock get paid if the trainer does something and gets a bad test? I believe the answer is yes the jock has fullfilled their end of the obligation , the trainer did not .

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Honu

Most trainers at cheap tracks dont have the money or the means to find out what is bothering a horse as far as X rays and nukes scans and such. Most cheap tracks dont have a vet clinic where you can take the horses and have them properly x rayed , as at most cheap tracks they do it in the shed with a hand held x ray device. Most time owners dont wanna have a bill for blocking a horse out then x raying them and then treating them for the problem , so what to do ? I have ridden horses that were blocked for races because it was cheaper for the trainer to do that than charge the owner for alot of other stuff. Sad as it may be that is the way it is, at cheap tracks people do what is they have to to get results , is it right ? I dont know, I know that the horses I work with now, the owners have alot of money and if they didnt care about the well being of their horses they wouldnt be in our barn , I am lucky. Still the point is should the jock get paid if the trainer does something and gets a bad test? I believe the answer is yes the jock has fullfilled their end of the obligation , the trainer did not .

I understand that the jock has filled his obligation, but I am assuming the main reason that the horse won was that he was jucied up. I know the jock still did he job by getting him home, but the mount was comprimised. By asking trainers to give money out of thier pockets, the jocks would be setting a dangerous precedence. I would also think that the trainers then would ask for the reverse when the jocks mess up. If they are hard up for money also. In the grand scheme I would think the jocks would be on the hook more than the trainers. Look at this board, not that much mention of trainers being suspended. Everyday there are many complaints about lousy rides and stupid DQ's. I am not sure how it works on the small circuits, meaning how many horses trainers have in thier stables and how much money a jock can make in a day. Could they make it up any other way? Maybe give the jock a extra mount or two if they have the horses and they don't get suspended from the flagging. Losing a check because of no fault of the jock hurts, but if the trainers don't have the money to spend on the health of the horses to see what wrong with them, do you really think that the trainers are going to sympathise with the jocks and give them money out of thier own pocket?