George Washington???

[NoChanceToDance]

I know many like me saying this, but i just can't help but think about the surface. It was more than likely just a tragic accident and could well have happened anywhere. But, this horse isn't a dirt horse and he hasn't been prepared on it. GW would never have seen a surface like that before, let alone stood on it.

My opinion counts for little, but i'm surprised they run both Dylan and George yesterday. I must say it isn't like Coolmore to run horses when they know their horses are going to struggle on, so i did find it very surprising.

He's gone, and no amount of arguing or discussing is going to bring them back. He didn't deserve this, especially not in a race he had no chance in.

Over here their have been many arguments about horses losing their lives (mosting in steeplechase racing) because they have run in races out of their depth. The same argument could be said here, it must say. He tried, but from an early stage something was wrong. He usually travels so well. The vet said these injuries usually happen as a result of horses being very tired.He was out of his depth and had never raced on anything like that before, because of that he paid with his life.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, i know.

[RolloTomasi]

as for kinane, that horse took a bad step late in the race. he wasn't lame all the way around.

George Washington was clearly uncomfortable down the backstretch, and it was noted by Trevor Denman during the race call. It's hard to determine if was injured at that point or he simply wasn't handling the track. I suppose, given the conditions, that Kinane supposed the latter.

However, either way, he was completely out of contention and going nowhere before the far turn, why didn't he just pull up?

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

as for kinane, that horse took a bad step late in the race. he wasn't lame all the way around.

George Washington was clearly uncomfortable down the backstretch, and it was noted by Trevor Denman during the race call. It's hard to determine if was injured at that point or he simply wasn't handling the track. I suppose, given the conditions, that Kinane supposed the latter.

However, either way, he was completely out of contention and going nowhere before the far turn, why didn't he just pull up?

You will be hounded for this post by others, but i agree with you 100%

[Danzig]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleind...e.asp?id=41655

NoChance, you're going to drive yourself nuts.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

as for kinane, that horse took a bad step late in the race. he wasn't lame all the way around.

George Washington was clearly uncomfortable down the backstretch, and it was noted by Trevor Denman during the race call. It's hard to determine if was injured at that point or he simply wasn't handling the track. I suppose, given the conditions, that Kinane supposed the latter.

However, either way, he was completely out of contention and going nowhere before the far turn, why didn't he just pull up?

several others didn't handle the course well either. should they all have pulled up? or just george, because his jock knows something bad is going to happen?
he was already slowing down. i don't believe the jock was riding him at the point that the injury occurred. hell, horses have been out for a routine gallop, not even a work, and suffered catastrophic injuries.

this is no ones fault. it's part of racing. george could have had the same thing happen had he run in the mile.

this is why so many said thank goodness go for wand didn't run in the classic vs males, like so many wanted. her owner and trainer would have been torn to pieces.

[RolloTomasi]

No chance of what?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

No chance of what?

i was talking to No Chance, he's going to drive himself mad over this.
that link i posted was about george before the bc, and his gallop over the muddy track. aidan seemed happy with how he was looking going in, and no concerns.
like i said, unless this horse was unsound, i don't see that anyone should point a finger at anyone.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this is no ones fault. it's part of racing. george could have had the same thing happen had he run in the mile.

I think this is very true- I think it's human nature, when something awful happens to a completely innocent party, to try to find someone or something to blame- within minutes of Barbaro's breakdown, people were screaming about the inhumanity of the Triple Crown- the same series of races Curlin and Hard Spun ran in and went on to run 1-2 in the Classic yesterday.

St. Liam was retired to stud and suffered a catastrophic injury on the way back to his paddock. If he'd been raced one more year would he still be here? If Sunday Silence hadn't been moved to Japan would he have not developed laminitis? If Ruffian had run against the boys would there have been no Match Race? If Swale had been galloped five minutes earlier or later would he have not had a heart attack?

I'm not intending to criticize those who are angry- I just think that bad things happen sometimes for no reason at all. And I think that's scary and frustrating because it's unfair and so we look for someone, something, to blame, so we can feel angry and not sad. Because grief hurts. A lot.

I think the owners, in this case, did what many of us want owners to do- be sportsmen- they brought back to the races a superstar horse who wasn't succeeding at stud and put him in a very challenging spot in that last race, rather than looking for a soft berth. It's terrible it ended the way it did. But I don't think it was the mud or the spot or bringing him back or anything other than bad luck.

(Which is not to let the owners off the hook for retiring HRE in GW's place, or for rushing GW off to stud in the first place, but that's a whole different issue). RIP, Gorgeous George, and my condolences and sympathy to all of your connections.

[NoChanceToDance]

I'm just going to say that hindsight is a wonderful thing. You say that afew weren't liking the surface either, but George was struggling after three furlongs. After going six furlongs he was only going to finish last.

I know that Aidan was happy with the track on Friday morning, but they hadn't had much rain by that time. The track was muddy, but it wasn't too bad.

As i said, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I'm not the only one who thinks he should have been scratched and that includes both europeans and Americans. The slop was never going to suit him, and althought it probably the reason for his tragic brake down. If he hadn't have run it wouldn't have happened.

I know there was a big concern on the day about the track, a concern about both tracks.

[Cajungator26]

While we're on the topic of rights and wrongs, if I was the owner of Better Talk Now, I would have scratched him immediately. I'm thankful that he's OK.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

While we're on the topic of rights and wrongs, if I was the owner of Better Talk Now, I would have scratched him immediately. I'm thankful that he's OK.

I'm thankful that Dylan came back okay, too.

[RolloTomasi]

several others didn't handle the course well either. should they all have pulled up? or just george, because his jock knows something bad is going to happen?

Not necessarily, but it wouldn't have been frowned upon either. Plenty of horses have pulled up in the BC when hopelessly beaten (eg Gentlemen, David Junior, Go and Go, Home At Last, etc).

However, of all the horses that failed to handle the main track yesterday, George Washington was the one traveling most conspicuously to the point where the possibility that something was amiss other than the surface came in to play.

he was already slowing down. i don't believe the jock was riding him at the point that the injury occurred.

I don't blame Kinane for what happened. Like I said, he probably assumed it was the surface that was causing the horse's poor action (and maybe it was). However, the fact that he wasn't driving on the horse when he broke down actually suggests that injury started much earlier in the race.

hell, horses have been out for a routine gallop, not even a work, and suffered catastrophic injuries.

That's totally unrelated to what happened here, but 9 times out of 10, horses that breakdown galloping have pre-existing injuries. I'm not going to suggest that's the case with George Washington.

this is no ones fault. it's part of racing. george could have had the same thing happen had he run in the mile.

If he was traveling as poorly in the Mile as he was in the Classic, it would have been better to pull him up there, too. In fact, maybe it would have tipped Kinane off better, if it was a type of going he knew the horse could handle.

this is why so many said thank goodness go for wand didn't run in the classic vs males, like so many wanted. her owner and trainer would have been torn to pieces.

Weren't they after the Distaff?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think this is very true- I think it's human nature, when something awful happens to a completely innocent party, to try to find someone or something to blame- within minutes of Barbaro's breakdown, people were screaming about the inhumanity of the Triple Crown- the same series of races Curlin and Hard Spun ran in and went on to run 1-2 in the Classic yesterday.

St. Liam was retired to stud and suffered a catastrophic injury on the way back to his paddock. If he'd been raced one more year would he still be here? If Sunday Silence hadn't been moved to Japan would he have not developed laminitis? If Ruffian had run against the boys would there have been no Match Race? If Swale had been galloped five minutes earlier or later would he have not had a heart attack?

I'm not intending to criticize those who are angry- I just think that bad things happen sometimes for no reason at all. And I think that's scary and frustrating because it's unfair and so we look for someone, something, to blame, so we can feel angry and not sad. Because grief hurts. A lot.

I think the owners, in this case, did what many of us want owners to do- be sportsmen- they brought back to the races a superstar horse who wasn't succeeding at stud and put him in a very challenging spot in that last race, rather than looking for a soft berth. It's terrible it ended the way it did. But I don't think it was the mud or the spot or bringing him back or anything other than bad luck.

(Which is not to let the owners off the hook for retiring HRE in GW's place, or for rushing GW off to stud in the first place, but that's a whole different issue). RIP, Gorgeous George, and my condolences and sympathy to all of your connections.

yeah, it is human nature to find a reason why. randomness isn't enough to explain things.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

several others didn't handle the course well either. should they all have pulled up? or just george, because his jock knows something bad is going to happen?

Not necessarily, but it wouldn't have been frowned upon either. Plenty of horses have pulled up in the BC when hopelessly beaten (eg Gentlemen, David Junior, Go and Go, Home At Last, etc).

However, of all the horses that failed to handle the main track yesterday, George Washington was the one traveling most conspicuously to the point where the possibility that something was amiss other than the surface came in to play.

he was already slowing down. i don't believe the jock was riding him at the point that the injury occurred.

I don't blame Kinane for what happened. Like I said, he probably assumed it was the surface that was causing the horse's poor action (and maybe it was). However, the fact that he wasn't driving on the horse when he broke down actually suggests that injury started much earlier in the race.

hell, horses have been out for a routine gallop, not even a work, and suffered catastrophic injuries.

That's totally unrelated to what happened here, but 9 times out of 10, horses that breakdown galloping have pre-existing injuries. I'm not going to suggest that's the case with George Washington.

this is no ones fault. it's part of racing. george could have had the same thing happen had he run in the mile.

If he was traveling as poorly in the Mile as he was in the Classic, it would have been better to pull him up there, too. In fact, maybe it would have tipped Kinane off better, if it was a type of going he knew the horse could handle.

this is why so many said thank goodness go for wand didn't run in the classic vs males, like so many wanted. her owner and trainer would have been torn to pieces.

Weren't they after the Distaff?

no.
but my gosh had they run her the way so many wanted, they'd have been blasted for it if she'd have suffered that breakdown in the classic.

[RolloTomasi]

no.
but my gosh had they run her the way so many wanted, they'd have been blasted for it if she'd have suffered that breakdown in the classic.

I misread what you wrote.

You meant that they would literally be "torn to pieces". You're probably right.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

no.
but my gosh had they run her the way so many wanted, they'd have been blasted for it if she'd have suffered that breakdown in the classic.

I misread what you wrote.

You meant that they would literally be "torn to pieces". You're probably right.

i know i am. fans clamor for something, and when they get it but it doesn't turn out right (according to them) then they go nuts and bite the hand that just fed them.
it's like when azeri was winning, so many enjoyed it, and wanted more, more. then she lost. oh, they should have quit while they were ahead, she's done enough, don't run her more...fickle fans.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know i am. fans clamor for something, and when they get it but it doesn't turn out right (according to them) then they go nuts and bite the hand that just fed them.
it's like when azeri was winning, so many enjoyed it, and wanted more, more. then she lost. oh, they should have quit while they were ahead, she's done enough, don't run her more...fickle fans.

I hope you're not suggesting i am one of those fickle fans.

I wanted this horse to run, just not in the Classic. Anywhere but the Classic. Nothing to do with the injury, but i wanted to see him in a race he actually had a chance in. The Champion Stakes at Newmarket for his for the taking the weekend before, why oh why choose the f'ing classic?

Eagle Mountain was beaten a head in the Champion Stakes, he George was 10 lengths better than he is!

I'm annoyed because the Classic shouldn't have been even a possible for the horse. Especially a classic on a dreadful track. No one over here thought he had a chance after the rain. He was being driven hard by Mick Kinane after three furlongs, and if you have seen any of his races before, you will know that is not him AT ALL. He is usually pulling his riders arms out in the early stages of ANY race.

There are awful similarities between this and Horatio in the Epsom Derby, doubts at the start and then it happens.

I have to agree with Rollo here.

As i write this i see yet another brake down on the track

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I hope you're not suggesting i am one of those fickle fans.

I wanted this horse to run, just not in the Classic. Anywhere but the Classic. Nothing to do with the injury, but i wanted to see him in a race he actually had a chance in. The Champion Stakes at Newmarket for his for the taking the weekend before, why oh why choose the f'ing classic?

Eagle Mountain was beaten a head in the Champion Stakes, he George was 10 lengths better than he is!

I'm annoyed because the Classic shouldn't have been even a possible for the horse. Especially a classic on a dreadful track. No one over here thought he had a chance after the rain. He was being driven hard by Mick Kinane after three furlongs, and if you have seen any of his races before, you will know that is not him AT ALL. He is usually pulling his riders arms out in the early stages of ANY race.

There are awful similarities between this and Horatio in the Epsom Derby, doubts at the start and then it happens.

I have to agree with Rollo here.

As i write this i see yet another brake down on the track

no, not saying that at all....i was referencing the fans who would have vilified go for wands connections had they done the very thing they wanted, run her in the classic. you questioned george and dylan running all along. sadly, in georges case, you were right.
but altho there are similarities between horatio and george, i don't think there was a question about georges soundness just before starting, as there was in horatios case.

[MaTH716]

It is just a tradgedy that the horse broke down. I do not think that you could fault any of the connections involved. We all complain on this board that we lose our stars to the shed way too early. They brought back a four year old to the races. What would have been said when things didn't work out in the shed and then they just put him away in a field at 4 to graze for the rest of his life. I think people would have been clamoring for them to bring him back. As far as the choice of going in the classic, I personally would have rather seen him in the mile. But from what I remember, he didn't have the best trip in the classic last year and he was chasing at least one monster home. He was on the rail the whole way and then had to go 5 wide and he also got bumped. Maybe the owners thought that last years race was much deeper than this years and thought they had a legit shot to win or at least hit the board. Bottom line is that you can bitch and moan all you want, we all lost a wonderful horse.

RIP big fella, you will be missed.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

happens fairly often, as not all turfers scratch when a race goes to the main track. and of course a turf race only moves if conditions warrant--rain being the culprit.

On what planet does this happen fairly often ?

I can't even recall another top-class Grade 1 turf horse running in the mud in the past 5 years. I'm sure it has happened, but very very rarely.