Another NY trainer caught....

[wigmore]

maybe you truly are a saint but the rest of the world is not like that...

the joy of winning is in the things you can buy with the money you've stolen

[Payson Dave]

Call me cynical but money (be it from the purse or from the betting window) may be more of a motivating factor than "the joy of winning"....
IMHO Corruption thrives most in situations involving money or power...and either of these things can be used to get the other.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why?

i'm serious. i would not cheat, and can't stand that others do. if you can't win something legitimately, wouldn't it bother you? it would me.

makes me want to throw up when i read 'future hall of famer asmussen'.

What about current or future hall of famers like Pletcher, Zito and Mandella?
Where do you draw that line?

As long as there is competition for money, people will work the edges to gain an advantage. You break the rules and get caught, you get fined and/or suspended.

If you have a beef that the penalties are too soft, why not campaign to make them tougher?

To a great extent the furor over Dutrow is a joke. He's doing his days and paying his fine, isn't he? To say he's "different" is wrong. He's NO different than the others who get fined and suspended aside from perhaps not being an overly penitent person.

Dutrow, for his faults, can flat out train a racehorse. A year ago people would point at him and Allday and claim it was the vet who moved his horses up. Well, he fired the vet a year ago and is doing ok. And Allday, aside from his outburst, is still a great vet.

Dutrow took Kip DeVille over from a guy named Netherland and moved him up. That makes him a criminal? Good trainers move up horses. It's not a crime.

Chuck Simon moved up that filly up 15-20 lengths in a few months. He's a good trainer. That's what is supposed to happen when a good trainer with a sharp eye takes a young horse from an average-to-poor trainer. They often move up.

I'm curious to know if Allday has done any work with Sumoneluveyou?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm just amazed. I really am surprised to read horseplayers defending cheating that is routinely stealing, yes stealing, money from our pockets.

The naivite around here is really surprising.

Perhaps I'm becoming extremely jaded, but it's really very amazing what we, as fans and/or handicappers, put up with in regards to the entire 'sport'.

Are there even enough benefits to be gained from milkshaking to even risk being caught? Seems pretty stupid to me.

[sumitas]

The big thing to me is that a trainer not run an unsound horse. I support Dee Tee Stable, including Gary Sciacca running the NY string.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by sumitas

The big thing to me is that a trainer not run an unsound horse. I support Dee Tee Stable, including Gary Sciacca running the NY string.

What do you think the milkshake was for, the horse was thirsty. The milkshake masks other drugs in the system, either performance enhancing drugs or drugs to relieve pain...either way your logic is flawed.

You can sort of argue when it comes to overrages, but milkshaking is just blatant cheating. The barn is a CHEATING BARN. It is that simple.

People that are his friends (some here obviously) defend him just like parents defend their children when they are on trial for killing someone. It is human nature. However, those on this board that will still use him and claim he knew nothing because he was on vacation, must think the rest of us are idiots.

The fact is the barn CHEATS. People who use barns that cheat help promote cheating. Nothing more to it than that. Those people that defend him now have absolutely ZERO credibility now when it comes to discussions on cheating in the sport. ZERO.


Sadly the biggest winners in the sport are the biggest cheaters. Just like in most sports. Horse racing is very close to joining the ranks of boxing because people continue to defend these cheaters.

[Fearless Leader]

[quote=Benevolus]

The fact is the barn CHEATS. People who use barns that cheat help promote cheating. Nothing more to it than that. Those people that defend him now have absolutely ZERO credibility now when it comes to discussions on cheating in the sport. ZERO.


QUOTE]



Could not possibly be said any clearer than that.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Are there even enough benefits to be gained from milkshaking to even risk being caught? Seems pretty stupid to me.

Don't forget, when this incident took place very few people were being caught for milkshaking, as testing only began in the last two years.

[pmacdaddy]

Maybe a stupid question, but were "Milkshakes" legal at any point? Or just something that was not tested for back in the day. At Flats and/or Harness Track.

[The Bid]

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of drugging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that bullshit should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

Originally Posted by The Bid

BTW is right, the public should be outraged whenever any kind of ging goes on. It should be a criminal offense. If these clowns faced punishment like people in the real world they wouldnt do it anymore.

Racing needs one governing body, and they need to take cheating serious. Snake Venom, Milk shaking, blocks/painkillers, all of that should land these guys in jail, off the grounds, and facing criminal charges.

If Chuck ran off to Cabo for a vacation do you think Cherie would be running around telling the vets to milkshake everything. It starts at the top, and it trickles down. The simple fact that Sciacca wasnt there just shows you how comfortable they were doing it.

The reason this game is stuck in the mud is because of its horrible reputation, something needs to be done

The really annoying thing about these guys cheating is they are screwing the gambler and the gambler is indirectly the guy who really pays their salary. It is almost like they have no respect for fairness to the guy gambling.

I don't have enough money to gamble a ton of money but I would not be happy if I lost a bunch of money when the horse I bet on ran 2nd to a cheater and then weeks later you find it out. The gambler still loses. It really hurts guys who spend thousand on pick 6's because they could lose out on a very big ticket due to one horse.

[The Bid]

Go into a bank and steal a thousand and see what happens. These guys are influencing a lot more money than a G when they cheat and they get a couple months off. PUHLEASE.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

What about current or future hall of famers like
I'm curious to know if Allday has done any work with Sumoneluveyou?

dont think we can afford em..

Allday is all about Lubrisyn. I wonder if Dutrow can use Lubrisyn with his "juice". If not, maybe that is why Allday is jumping all over him.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

There was once a time in the 90's when Sciacca was a top the Belmont standings with 30 wins - had a 26.1 win percentage from 115 starters with an avg win mutual of $14.30 for those 30 winners - and was a magical 21-for-56 (37.5% wins) with runners on the turf course.

Gasper Moschera was 2nd in the standings.

How times have changed!

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Allday is all about Lubrisyn. I wonder if Dutrow can use Lubrisyn with his "juice". If not, maybe that is why Allday is jumping all over him.

Speaking of Lurbisyn, I saw some young short guy in a nice Loisville steakhouse wearing an old Lubrisyn baseball cap. Must of been Allday's son.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Speaking of Lurbisyn, I saw some young short guy in a nice Loisville steakhouse wearing an old Lubrisyn baseball cap. Must of been Allday's son.

I have one of those caps too.

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Speaking of Lurbisyn, I saw some young short guy in a nice Loisville steakhouse wearing an old Lubrisyn baseball cap. Must of been Allday's son.

It seems like many trainers are now using it. He got Pletcher to use it and wear the jacket and now everyone is following. I bet it doesn't hurt to use and I don't think it is super expensive per horse ($1/day per horse), but I am skeptical of it. Seems like just another thing to make the breed more fragile.

[sumitas]

Thanks for the stats. The man has a solid training resume and I fully support Dee Tee Stable and Gary Sciacca. This one incident, clouded by over 4 years of time amidst differing accounts, should not define his entirety.