Time to stop the open funding of terrorism!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I am clearly on the side of Israel as demonstrated by many of my posts. I dont think they have done everything properly, but they are a moral democracy.

And I occasionally find myself on the side of someone such as the bold one. And I wonder what the hell, have a gotten completely wrong? Such shallow thinking. I need to go back and rethink this thing. Kinda like when the KKK backs Republicans, or animal rights groups let infected lab rats lose- vote Democratic... please dont back, we really dont want your vote.

Just want to be isolated from primitive thought patterns.

There aren't too many folks further to the left on this board than me...yet I support a lot of what BB says. Israel is a moral democracy and we MUST support her continued existence. Folks who commit acts of terrorism are terrorists and must be destroyed...not reasoned with or compromised with...destroyed! Evil exists and must be fought...we will never defeat evil but we can and must defeat those who do evil...sure, others will take their place and those that take ours must defeat them...there is a balance to all the universes and evil constantly attempts to destroy that balance...it must be maintained!

[Byebyemermaid]

We have family that live in Haifa and Tel-Aviv.One of the rockets that hit Haifa yesterday was about 1/3 of a mile from there apartment.When my wife saw the footage she immediately recognized the area.We got hold of them on the phone and asked how they were and they said fine and next asked about our family like nothing was going on.I don't thinkwe could ever be that casual about what is happening there if it was going on here.One of there sons who just had there second child has been recalled.The family that lives in Herzilia Petuach near Tel-Aviv has a son who is in special forces as a naval seal.His father was a Colonel in the army.the only thing i can say is if there is ever a quiet time there you must see that place.Jewish,Christian it doesen't matter.It's a remarkable place.

OK then I am dissappointed. I agree with someone who just does not think. Makes up his mind based on preconceived biases and never touches evidence that does not fit the mold. I cant stand these types. Disappointed...

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

OK then I am dissappointed. I agree with someone who just does not think. Makes up his mind based on preconceived biases and never touches evidence that does not fit the mold. I cant stand these types. Disappointed...

My clothes are dirty but my hands are clean...words of Bob Dylan.
Don't judge a book by it's cover...I have no idea who first said that.
People who don't think can't possibly reach meaningful conclusions and BB reaches meaningful conclusions therefore...
Beware of snap judgement based on internet posts...70-80% of human communication is non-verbal, the net is 100% verbal (written).
The truth has many vehicles, there is the messenger and there is the message...we must never confuse them!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

My clothes are dirty but my hands are clean...words of Bob Dylan.
Don't judge a book by it's cover...I have no idea who first said that.
People who don't think can't possibly reach meaningful conclusions and BB reaches meaningful conclusions therefore...
Beware of snap judgement based on internet posts...70-80% of human communication is non-verbal, the net is 100% verbal (written).
The truth has many vehicles, there is the messenger and there is the message...we must never confuse them!

Somer have you seen the sites he posts? I have sampled 4. They are all absolutely horrible with a huge agenda. I try and read the Wall Street Journal, the NY Times, listen to the experts on all sides on C-span... I try to get a smattering from everywhere. Call my Uncle who was a career diplomat (not some political hack contributor to a presidency). His sites... holy cow.

[dalakhani]

[quote=somerfrost]There aren't too many folks further to the left on this board than me...yet I support a lot of what BB says. Israel is a moral democracy and we MUST support her continued existence. Folks who commit acts of terrorism are terrorists and must be destroyed...not reasoned with or compromised with...destroyed! Evil exists and must be fought...we will never defeat evil but we can and must defeat those who do evil...sure, others will take their place and those that take ours must defeat them...there is a balance to all the universes and evil constantly attempts to destroy that balance...it must be maintained![/QUOTE]

This is about the funniest thing i have read on here. Its like you stopped just short of saying "anakin, only the sith deal in absolutes". lol

You think you stand to the left and use terms like "destroy", "evil" and even "terrorist" in the same mangled diatribe?

You seem to like cliches. How about this one: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Think about that for one second.

Think about all sides of the issue before you start spouting off about "balance to the universe" and try just for a second to understand why the universe is just so "unbalanced" right now.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Somer have you seen the sites he posts? I have sampled 4. They are all absolutely horrible with a huge agenda.

I have made only one recommendation for outside reading ... the books and opinion columns of Dr. Thomas Sowell ... a 72-year-old professor at Stanford University ... who is universally recognized as a brilliant scholar and researcher ... even by socialists who don't share his beliefs in individual freedom.

If you think Dr. Sowell's writings are "absolutely horrible" ... there's nothing to do but pity you.

And I won't get into my personal academic qualifications and professional achievements ... because there's no way for anyone to verify them ... but if you knew them ... you'd be ashamed of some of the ignorant things you've written.

As Dean Martin used to say to Jerry Lewis ... "Look ashamed!"

Originally Posted by dalakhani

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Think about that for one second.

That's utter nonsense in this context.

The terrorists are in no way fighting for freedom ... they hate Jews and openly profess an obsessive desire to kill all of them. And they readily kill any of their co-religionists who disagree with their goals and methods.

On the other hand ... the members of the U.S. military have always been freedom fighters ... defeating brutal, murderous tyrannies and establishing free democracies in their place.

Think about that ... for many seconds.

[somerfrost]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

There aren't too many folks further to the left on this board than me...yet I support a lot of what BB says. Israel is a moral democracy and we MUST support her continued existence. Folks who commit acts of terrorism are terrorists and must be destroyed...not reasoned with or compromised with...destroyed! Evil exists and must be fought...we will never defeat evil but we can and must defeat those who do evil...sure, others will take their place and those that take ours must defeat them...there is a balance to all the universes and evil constantly attempts to destroy that balance...it must be maintained![/QUOTE]

This is about the funniest thing i have read on here. Its like you stopped just short of saying "anakin, only the sith deal in absolutes". lol

You think you stand to the left and use terms like "destroy", "evil" and even "terrorist" in the same mangled diatribe?

You seem to like cliches. How about this one: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Think about that for one second.

Think about all sides of the issue before you start spouting off about "balance to the universe" and try just for a second to understand why the universe is just so "unbalanced" right now.

I doubt that you are so advanced in your philosophy as to make fun of mine and I certainly don't have to present my credentials to someone I don't even know. I've lived my life by that which I believe and have never been bashful of presenting my opinions on any subject. A couple points...I KNOW that I am to the left of most here, I don't just think it. My thoughts were clearly stated, they were neither mangled or bitter, simply my point of view. You are welcome to your's but attempting to devalue mine is a poor substitute to presenting a retort based on whatever your opinion may be for debate. Also, my response was geared specifically to Pgardn, a poster that I know and respect and have had many discussions with in the past, not some lurker that I honestly don't know or care about. Your world view is apparently different than mine....cool! We can debate the merits of our ideology, but starting out with an attempt to lecture me from some perceived loft of intellectual superiority is well...a waste of your time!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I doubt that you are so advanced in your philosophy as to make fun of mine and I certainly don't have to present my credentials to someone I don't even know. I've lived my life by that which I believe and have never been bashful of presenting my opinions on any subject. A couple points...I KNOW that I am to the left of most here, I don't just think it. My thoughts were clearly stated, they were neither mangled or bitter, simply my point of view. You are welcome to your's but attempting to devalue mine is a poor substitute to presenting a retort based on whatever your opinion may be for debate. Also, my response was geared specifically to Pgardn, a poster that I know and respect and have had many discussions with in the past, not some lurker that I honestly don't know or care about. Your world view is apparently different than mine....cool! We can debate the merits of our ideology, but starting out with an attempt to lecture me from some perceived loft of intellectual superiority is well...a waste of your time!

Nice response.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

That's utter nonsense in this context.

The terrorists are in no way fighting for freedom ... they hate Jews and openly profess an obsessive desire to kill all of them. And they readily kill any of their co-religionists who disagree with their goals and methods.

On the other hand ... the members of the U.S. military have always been freedom fighters ... defeating brutal, murderous tyrannies and establishing free democracies in their place.

Think about that ... for many seconds.

Congratulations! You are definitely a graduate of OxyViagra University with the Drug Czar Rush (fitting name) the dean.

Can the bolded statement be any further from the truth?

You mean those "free democracies" in the Phillipines, Iran, Iraq, South Viet Nam, ETC, ETC, ETC that the US implemented as pupits during the 20th century? You mean those leaders that the US installed that were known as Marcos, the shah, Saddam and Diem? Those "free democracies" that were "defeating" brutal murderous tryrannies? LOL

[dalakhani]

[quote=somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I doubt that you are so advanced in your philosophy as to make fun of mine and I certainly don't have to present my credentials to someone I don't even know. I've lived my life by that which I believe and have never been bashful of presenting my opinions on any subject. A couple points...I KNOW that I am to the left of most here, I don't just think it. My thoughts were clearly stated, they were neither mangled or bitter, simply my point of view. You are welcome to your's but attempting to devalue mine is a poor substitute to presenting a retort based on whatever your opinion may be for debate. Also, my response was geared specifically to Pgardn, a poster that I know and respect and have had many discussions with in the past, not some lurker that I honestly don't know or care about. Your world view is apparently different than mine....cool! We can debate the merits of our ideology, but starting out with an attempt to lecture me from some perceived loft of intellectual superiority is well...a waste of your time!

Before we can begin ANYTHING, you have to go back to Kindergarten and learn LEFT from RIGHT.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by pgardn

OK then I am dissappointed. I agree with someone who just does not think. Makes up his mind based on preconceived biases and never touches evidence that does not fit the mold. I cant stand these types. Disappointed...

pgardn, I have a question for you. Do you feel it is possible for a person to use their own mind, absent of pre-conceived biases, considering many different viewpoints, and to then adopt the very same world-view as BB? Or are you implying that anyone that shares this same worldview does not think and simply parrots what other people say?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Somer have you seen the sites he posts? I have sampled 4. They are all absolutely horrible with a huge agenda. I try and read the Wall Street Journal, the NY Times, listen to the experts on all sides on C-span... I try to get a smattering from everywhere. Call my Uncle who was a career diplomat (not some political hack contributor to a presidency). His sites... holy cow.

You've never sensed any whiff of an agenda with the NY Times or C-Span?
Most of the internet sites that I have seen are all agenda driven and do not really try to hide it, liberal, conservative, left or right. The agenda is right in your face whether you like it or not. The trouble I have with places like NY Times, C-Span, Public TV, they're theoretically supposed to be agenda free.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

pgardn, I have a question for you. Do you feel it is possible for a person to use their own mind, absent of pre-conceived biases, considering many different viewpoints, and to then adopt the very same world-view as BB? Or are you implying that anyone that shares this same worldview does not think and simply parrots what other people say?

My point is simply that he would never change the way he views the world, even if the evidence points the other way. In this world you have to be flexible. My background is in Science; I guess thats why I cannot understand people like him. If you have a notion that there is a clear reason some phenomena happens the way it does, and the evidence shows quite clearly that your reasoning is flawed, you CHANGE your views. BB searches for evidence that backs his reasoning. Thats backwards. I believe one has to look at everything and come up with generalizations for such incrediby tough topics that we have attempted to take on.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

You've never sensed any whiff of an agenda with the NY Times or C-Span?
Most of the internet sites that I have seen are all agenda driven and do not really try to hide it, liberal, conservative, left or right. The agenda is right in your face whether you like it or not. The trouble I have with places like NY Times, C-Span, Public TV, they're theoretically supposed to be agenda free.

Nothing is totally agenda free. Noticed you left the Wall Street Journal (not a tinge business oriented) out? The SPEAKERS on C-span have their agenda but you listen and wade through what they are trying to say (some are just attempting to sell books). A lot of these guys spend their lives trying to understand one very particular part of the world. They ATTEMPT to understand what is really happening in a situation. Because if they dont, the likelyhood that the conclusion they might reach will be very wrong. You have to try and listen to people that are academics that are REALLY trying to understand a situation. Not tyring to make a situation fit a theme and ignoring other evidence that is to the contrary. The NY times is clearly liberal, but has some of the best foreign reporting I have ever read. Ever. You just dont throw out a source that has so many ways to get at a story, so many people in thick of events... Not just read some article from a guy who has never been out of his house like BB puts up.

I like reports that deal mainly with observations and leave the commentary out. Then I like to listen to the experts take the raw data and observations and try and make some sense out of it.
And my God with the Thomas Sowell. This man experienced success in a very tough situation. He is clearly gifted and thinks everyone can achieve exactly what he did. Thats tainted stuff. And BB ultimately has to know this, as he has never answered how blacks found themselves in a much more dire financial straight (on the whole) BEFORE welfare.

I get tired of saying on the whole because BB will find one black man who was a millionaire, and use him as the norm. And thats twisting data. ANd that is disingenious and wrong. Kind of like what he has done with Thomas Sowell. Because this guy is black and fits neatly into BBs worldview, he is a God. Thats a dangerous way to go about trying to understand what is REALLY going on.

[somerfrost]

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Before we can begin ANYTHING, you have to go back to Kindergarten and learn LEFT from RIGHT.

Obviously, you must feel you lack the mental tools necessary for substantive debate and therefore resort to making belittling personal comments simply because I don't share your point of view (assuming you actually have one, you certainly have done little except attack the views of others thus far). I have no time for folks like you, I have been around too long to be baited unless I care to be and when I read your posts...to quote Willow Rosenberg, "bored now!" I will refrain from posting further in response to your personal comments.

[dalakhani]

[quote=somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Obviously, you must feel you lack the mental tools necessary for substantive debate and therefore resort to making belittling personal comments simply because I don't share your point of view (assuming you actually have one, you certainly have done little except attack the views of others thus far). I have no time for folks like you, I have been around too long to be baited unless I care to be and when I read your posts...to quote Willow Rosenberg, "bored now!" I will refrain from posting further in response to your personal comments.

Im glad that you will refrain if all im going to get is regurgitated riff raff about the "balance of the universe" and "destroying evil". LOL

Originally Posted by pgardn

BB searches for evidence that backs his reasoning. Thats backwards.

More utter nonsense.

You haven't the slightest idea who I am ... or how I reach my conclusions.

When others were linking to loopy-loony leftist websites ... I recommended that they take a look at what Dr. Sowell had to say as well.

For your information ... I earned a Ph.D in Economics in the very same year that Dr. Sowell did (1968) ... even though he's about 12 years older than I ... so where did you get the coc-kamamie notion that he did anything to shape my views?

Dr. Sowell and I just happen to share the same belief in individual freedom ... which we reached completely independent of one another.

Your pomposity is greatly disproportionate to your knowledge.

[quote=dalakhani]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Im glad that you will refrain if all im going to get is regurgitated riff raff about the "balance of the universe" and "destroying evil". LOL

It's very difficult to know who is making these posts ... dalakhani or somerfrost.

Someone hit a wrong button somewhere ... and the confusion persists. Will one of you please start from scratch ... so the rest of us can follow the thread?