Past Posting Proven once again.....perhaps 49 combinations of one race!!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

I get that people were complaining.
If you knew how to read, you would have noticed the portion of my previous post which stated "until we figure out".
Now everybody else, except you, seems to comprehend that my idea wasn't being proposed as a permanent deal.
Here are the facts:
Past-posting still exists, and the wagering public doesn't like it.
OK. If we shut off wagering 20 seconds earlier, past-posting stops.
But it only solves part of the problem. Our current systems can calculate final odds and display them no better than 45 seconds after the pools have been closed.
WHIIIIICH MEEEEEEANNNNNNS................now that the trust has been broken,
past-posting will still be suspected, since bettors will still see winners leave the
gate at 3/1 and cross the finish line at 9/5 odds.
There are two problems to be solved, not one.
The fans clearly want both issues addressed which can't be done overnight.
Therefore, we must bridge the gap between now and when that magical day reveals itself.
What's better than closing the pools 1-2 minutes before the gates open
as of today 3/29/2008 6:28 PM EST ?

Maybe you dont understand that way more customers were complaining when they tried it your way. There were big bettors that stopped betting on races at Churchill because they were tired of getting shutout or being forced to bet earlier than they wanted. They told management that they wouldnt be participating. So dont act like you have come up with some ingenious way to magically solve the problem. It has been attempted and was met with severe resistance from horseplayers.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe you dont understand that way more customers were complaining when they tried it your way. There were big bettors that stopped betting on races at Churchill because they were tired of getting shutout or being forced to bet earlier than they wanted. They told management that they wouldnt be participating. So dont act like you have come up with some ingenious way to magically solve the problem. It has been attempted and was met with severe resistance from horseplayers.

How do we know it isn't those same big bettors that are taking advantage of the flaws?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How do we know it isn't those same big bettors that are taking advantage of the flaws?

There must be a lot of them because I was told they were getting a 100 complaints a day, more if there was some kind of delay at the gate.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

Nothing magic or ingenious about it. You know the first time I brought this up ( and so does everyone else here. just look it up ) I took a trip down memory lane to complain about why the race tracks didn't stick to it despite the complaints.
Once again. Look it up. I never said this was something I came up with on my own. I'm just a fan of common sense.
Instead of mischaracterizing what I'm saying, try tell us what's better for the short run.

Everytime the issue is brought up you jump in with the same old, just shut down a minute before posttime. And everytime I repeat that they tried it but due to tremendous negative response, they stopped. So what makes you think that the same tremedous negative response wouldnt happen again? That is not even taking into consideration that the tracks almost never lose sight of the short term bottom line and how it would be negatively effected.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

So unless we have the perfect solution immediately, stand by and do nothing.
sounds like an idea to me.

No, do something that has already failed

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There must be a lot of them because I was told they were getting a 100 complaints a day, more if there was some kind of delay at the gate.

100 complaints for big bettors, or 100 in general?

A lot of people complained they had to wear a seat belt for awhile, but we didn't revert back to it being a legal choice.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by golfer

The one horse in the last race at Aqueduct was 4-1 when the gate opened, 7-2 at the half mile pole, and 3-1 down the stretch, while winning by a handful.

The 4-1 was the price BEFORE the flash when the gates open...

The 7-2 is the price BETWEEN the flash before the gates opened and at the opening of the gates...

The 3-1 is the price OFF THE FINAL TOTE FORCE which comes 10 seconds after the gates open...

Understand that these prices get into the television visual package in that order ONLY IF THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE RUNNING ORDER... The odds are NOT changing as the race is being run the way that visual makes it appear...

NO MNEY GETS IN THE POOL AFTER THE 10 SECOND FORCE..

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Everytime the issue is brought up you jump in with the same old, just shut down a minute before posttime. And everytime I repeat that they tried it but due to tremendous negative response, they stopped. So what makes you think that the same tremedous negative response wouldnt happen again? That is not even taking into consideration that the tracks almost never lose sight of the short term bottom line and how it would be negatively effected.

Not to mention the fact, how many times are the start of races delayed so that they can get to everyone in line. Like Chuck said, it was tried before and it SUCKED. And it will SUCK again if they decide to do this.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by golfer

The one horse in the last race at Aqueduct was 4-1 when the gate opened, 7-2 at the half mile pole, and 3-1 down the stretch, while winning by a handful.

The odds in that race were dancing like crazy from the first flash to last flash.
I wouldn't go jumping to any conclusions. The one was a Paraneck firster who took a lot of money at first flash and I was a little surprised. I don't remembering it drifting as high as 4-1.

[TheSpyder]

I don't think you'll ever make everyone happy until Scavs develops his buzzer to close of betting. In the meantime just how big of a problem is it aside from banter on this forum. Closing off betting early will drive gamblers and handle away from your track and if you think everyone will agree to do it, think again. You can never do one thing and with your idea, you'll cause more negative than positive IMO

Spyder

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

You and your buddy still haven't come up with a better solution, for now, until we can make everyone happy.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

You and your buddy still haven't come up with a better solution, for now, until we can make everyone happy.

Who's not happy? I'm happy.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

I'll stick to my guns anyway. And I could be wrong in the very short term. OK.
Scavs' sensor could be the answer.
My questions to you would be:
How quickly will the last second bets be processed, and all the pools be calculated ?
If no faster than the best of our current systems, will we still be hearing cries of outrage about the odds changing from start to finish ?

It does seem to be the logical option.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

I find it odd, we all accept horse racing was more popular in the past.
Yet we don't have to go much more than a decade back to see we weren't able to place bets at our tracks or OTBs less than one minute before the gates opened.
Try getting your pick-6 ticket in with less than TWO MINUTES to post of the first leg, fifteen years ago on the NYRA circuit.Am I supposed to believe our sport is hanging on a thread only because we are allowed to wager up until the gates open ?

I remember that. Never really affected me too much, but I've never been a big pick-6 player. I don't think our sport is hanging on a thread because of wagering up to the gates open, but believe me it is a big pain in the butt.
I'm not sure where your from, but if you've ever been to Saratoga, check out the lines with 1 mtp. There would be a riot if they shut the windows down.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The 4-1 was the price BEFORE the flash when the gates open...

The 7-2 is the price BETWEEN the flash before the gates opened and at the opening of the gates...

The 3-1 is the price OFF THE FINAL TOTE FORCE which comes 10 seconds after the gates open...

Understand that these prices get into the television visual package in that order ONLY IF THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE RUNNING ORDER... The odds are NOT changing as the race is being run the way that visual makes it appear...

NO MNEY GETS IN THE POOL AFTER THE 10 SECOND FORCE..

Steve, there is at least a 99% chance that all of the above is true, but can you speak with 100% certainty? Because if you can, you are privy to some information or computer programming code that I am not.
The bottom line is, just like with horsemen who want a level playing field, I only want all pari-mutual wagerers to have a completely level one as well. I don't care if you bet $10 or $10,000, NO ONE should have an advantage over another based on the tote system.
The problem, in my estimation, is the tracks have no financial interest in guaranteeing this, as they care not who wins and loses, as long as they get their $ off the top.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

The odds in that race were dancing like crazy from the first flash to last flash.
I wouldn't go jumping to any conclusions. The one was a Paraneck firster who took a lot of money at first flash and I was a little surprised. I don't remembering it drifting as high as 4-1.

No conclusions drawn, just relating what I saw while betting on, then watching the race.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Is it really a big deal to close betting before the first horse gets in the gate? I know people complained before, but people will always complain about something. I'm sure people will learn to adjust their betting to make sure they do not get shut out.

To many people it is. I know you've been to the Spa. Hoss, can you imagine what would happen 100's of people got shut out? Maybe you weren't playing yet when they tried this before. It was crazy. Sure, people for the most part could adjust but I'd rather not.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

Fair enough. The day we close off past posters for good, and still can't get a final odds calculation until the field hits the far turn will be OK with me too.

It's obvious you, and others here, think my solution is no good. That's OK.
None of you could show that allowing past-posting is better either. That's OK too.

You guys and s can assure you'll never hear from me again, on this subject, as long as I don't see anyone complain about how your horse, who was 5/1 at gate's open, only got you 7/2 at the window.Otherwise, I'll be all too pleased to remind everyone how you all got exactly what you wanted, instead of accepting the real world concept of lines.

I've seen it, but do we really think it's past posting? I've had it happen the other way as well when a horse I bet was 9/2 and ended up 5-1 after the race. Nobody complains aobut that.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

Now you're talking about the incompetence and inability of any or all racetracks to provide a facility adequate to serve their customers in a timely fashion. They could double the betting machines and number of teller windows and people will still get shutout.
Whether it's Saratoga, Belmont, Aqueduct, Mars, or Jupiter I'm still gonna see people at a few windows when that bell sounds.

Not so fast. When I'm at Saratoga, many times I watch the horses walk past me by the clubhouse hedge. After they pass I make my final decision as to what I'm playing. Most of the time I use the SAM Machine in the Jim Dandy Bar, therefore I have time to make my wager and still have time to get to the rail. Many people wait longer. It's not the fault of the track. When you have 25,000 people at a track, a large % of those people are inexperienced, dumb, stupid, etc. when it comes to placing a bet. That slows lines down.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I was playing when they did this. It was a little bit more inconvenient than before, but really, for integrity's sake I was okay with it. Honestly, I always look at it like if I get shut out, it's MY fault. There is plenty of time to make a bet before a race. I mean if you are in an area of a racetrack, OTB, etc that is really busy, there is a chance you are going to get shut out no matter what if you aren't paying attention.

I feel the same way, but shutting down the windows early is going to increase my chances of getting shut out.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So bet earlier. At Saratoga like you say, you watch the horses come out of the paddock, like I do, and then you make your bet. You have a good 10 minutes from that point to bet. I can honestly say that in 14 years of going to Saratoga I have been shut out maybe a handful of times. All those times were because I was drunk and screwing around.

I'm glad I've never been that way at the Spa before.