Eight Belles & Proud Spell

[dylbert]

Originally Posted by cakes44

There's always going to be horses that don't belong if you base it on earnings. If it was changed to to 3-year-old earnings, how long do you think it would be before Delta Downs moves the Jackpot to a month later?

B-I-N-G-O!!! Boyd Gaming moves race to first week in January and becomes key prep race. Yes, they would have to wait for grading, but it would come. I wondered how long it would take someone to post this fact. See you in Vinton!!!

If 3YO graded earnings are more valuable than 2YO graded earnings, many horses will have very light 2YO campaign and quality of 2YO racing would likely decline. I suggest that many horses would get 2 or 3 races during late spring-midsummer and go on shelf until mid-November. Get an allowance race in early December and begin graded stakes journey on January 1.

Existing graded races such as FG: Lecomte, Risen Star and Louisiana Derby and OP: Southwest, Rebel and Arkansas Derby would gain greater importance. Aqueduct could move Withers immediately and improves its stature. Tampa Bay could introduce new 3YO prep and slide Tampa Bay Derby into February and create new value for its facility. Magnaville (GP & SA) would have to stop mismanaging its race schedules (see stellar G3 Holy Bull this year). Magna would need purse hikes in its 3YO preps for Santa Anita and Florida Derbies to attract horses away from FG, OP and Tam. The scenarios are endless and intriguing should this change occur.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dylbert

B-I-N-G-O!!! Boyd Gaming moves race to first week in January and becomes key prep race. Yes, they would have to wait for grading, but it would come. I wondered how long it would take someone to post this fact. See you in Vinton!!!

If 3YO graded earnings are more valuable than 2YO graded earnings, many horses will have very light 2YO campaign and quality of 2YO racing would likely decline. I suggest that many horses would get 2 or 3 races during late spring-midsummer and go on shelf until mid-November. Get an allowance race in early December and begin graded stakes journey on January 1.

Existing graded races such as FG: Lecomte, Risen Star and Louisiana Derby and OP: Southwest, Rebel and Arkansas Derby would gain greater importance. Aqueduct could move Withers immediately and improves its stature. Tampa Bay could introduce new 3YO prep and slide Tampa Bay Derby into February and create new value for its facility. Magnaville (GP & SA) would have to stop mismanaging its race schedules (see stellar G3 Holy Bull this year). Magna would need purse hikes in its 3YO preps for Santa Anita and Florida Derbies to attract horses away from FG, OP and Tam. The scenarios are endless and intriguing should this change occur.

anak nakal is a perfect example of a horse getting in based solely on his two year old season. he's run eighth, seventh and fifth this season. but the gr 2 win in november gives him the earnings to run in may.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think you're missing Phil's point King. Not to speak for him, but I think he meant more in terms of earnings against males. A case could be made that the fillies earnings shouldn't count, unless the earnings were against males, since the filly races are restricted to sex.

I agree. Winning money in restricted races for fillies is not in the same league as graded earnings in races open to any entrant. It is outrageous that these 2 could bump some horses that battled in open stakes.

[cmorioles]

2yo races should count. Filly races should not. All horses from the Derby crop are eligible to compete in the 2yo races. All horses from the same crop are not eligible to compete in filly races.

I think sprints should be excluded as well, but that is a tougher sell. If you exclude by distance, you could argue turf and sythetic races shouldn't count either. (Side note: Will they actually call it the BC Dirt Mile this year?)

[Danzig]

i think you'd see the AE list occur long before filly graded races are taken out of the rules.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think you'd see the AE list occur long before filly graded races are taken out of the rules.

Filly graded earnings discriminate against colts because they are not allowed to enter the races. A law suit should settle this nonsense and I'd like to see one from the owners of the excluded colts in this years derby if the fillies bump them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

2yo races should count. Filly races should not. All horses from the Derby crop are eligible to compete in the 2yo races. All horses from the same crop are not eligible to compete in filly races.

I think sprints should be excluded as well, but that is a tougher sell. If you exclude by distance, you could argue turf and sythetic races shouldn't count either. (Side note: Will they actually call it the BC Dirt Mile this year?)

Maybe they can change the name of the Oaks to the Female Derby?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Filly graded earnings discriminate against colts because they are not allowed to enter the races. A law suit should settle this nonsense and I'd like to see one from the owners of the excluded colts in this years derby if the fillies bump them.

What grounds would you sue them for? Bad judgement?

[Linny]

Young Ladies Derby.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe they can change the name of the Oaks to the Female Derby?

I take it you don't agree?

[sumitas]

I'mnot much for the old Clintonesque affirmative action which is emobodied in this stupid Churchill Downs policy for graded stakes. It just lessons the derby, which is ok, because it's over rated anyway.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I take it you don't agree?

I do. Restricted races are restricted races. They shouldnt count.

[sumitas]

You'd think. And they said Cali is the home of fruits and nuts. If the flakey owner wants to take advantage of a loophole I guess he can but it's against the history of the KD and shows no respect for the sport or the legendary race whatsoever.

[pb72vett]

sorry but eight no in the money here my friend. better chance with there own.

[Danzig]

is the sudden hard on about fillies in the derby due to the fact that these two are owned by porter, that he might enter only to scratch, thus keeping some horse in 22nd place in earnings out, or that neither filly has faced boys as yet?
if eight belles should happen to win, which is unlikely, would the foul crying get worse or stop altogether?

[hockey2315]

Porter doesn't own Proud Spell

[Danzig]

no, eight belles....i should have kept all that singular, since jones' other filly is pretty much a lock to go in the oaks.

i can't remember tho if all other fillies to this point who ran in the derby had met colts beforehand. had they all?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i can't remember tho if all other fillies to this point who ran in the derby had met colts beforehand. had they all?

I feel like quite a few did. Winning Colors won the Santa Anita Derby, Althea won the Arkansas Derby and Genuine Risk ran third in the Wood Memorial. Frankly I can't remember a lot of other fillies trying. Maybe Life's Magic? She was a Lukas horse so it wouldn't surprise me if she had faced the boys ( she sure did later ).

[Kasept]

1980: Genuine Risk
1982: Cupecoy's Joy
1984: Althea; Life's Magic
1988: Winning Colors
1995: Serena's Song
1999: Excellent Meeting; Three Ring

[blackthroatedwind]

I feel like Serena's Song won the Jim Beam.