Improving the product

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

use laptops with downloaded info instead of the Byk method which has killed half the rain forests of the world

This is a rainforest issue? LOL. Just kidding. Sure, I can see that. But will the majority of the people -- the mass market that exists, and the market the racetracks will need to appeal to in the future -- bring laptops to the track? Will some? OK.

Are there potential problems here Chuck?

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

This is a rainforest issue? LOL. Just kidding. Sure, I can see that. But will the majority of the people -- the mass market that exists, and the market the racetracks will need to appeal to in the future -- bring laptops to the track? Will some? OK.

Are there potential problems here Chuck?

Eric

Only if they dont want guys downloading porn on their dime

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

The thing that gets me fired up the most, is the tracks poke you for 2 bucks walking thru the gate. I sometimes think that Churchill spends more paying the old folks from the community center to sit at the gate than they actually collect some days. You would think the track mgt would take a field trip to a casino sometime to see why they are popular.

when i tell people it's 2 bucks to get in, they're shocked. that's it?? yeah, that's it. you can spend a day at the track, and maybe win money back to pay for the trip, and spend a lot less than having three hours at a ball game.

the thing most needed is advertising. sell the product. sell ownership-sell a cheap day long fun fest. sell the fact that you can win huge bucks. a variety of ways to do it.
but they need to get into mainstream advertising. the only time you see ads for racing is during a racing telecast. eff that. we who are watching already know about the sport.
run ads during a baseball game, a nascar race (we're the ORIGINAL horsepower)...

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Danzig

when i tell people it's 2 bucks to get in, they're shocked. that's it?? yeah, that's it. you can spend a day at the track, and maybe win money back to pay for the trip, and spend a lot less than having three hours at a ball game.

the thing most needed is advertising. sell the product. sell ownership-sell a cheap day long fun fest. sell the fact that you can win huge bucks. a variety of ways to do it.
but they need to get into mainstream advertising. the only time you see ads for racing is during a racing telecast. eff that. we who are watching already know about the sport.
run ads during a baseball game, a nascar race (we're the ORIGINAL horsepower)...

Like Sumitas and W17, you are missing the point. Its not the 2 bucks, its the principle.
I happen to own a small town pharmacy and I value each customer that walks thru the door. How long do you think it would take to go under if I stood at the door all day and charged a $2 admission fee to shop at my store? Although, Sam's Club seems to be getting away with it I am not going to go down that road..

Please, tell me the difference!!

[Danzig]

unlike a pharmacy, it's fun to go to the track.

every entertainment venue charges to get in, right? i'd say compared to every other type of entertainment, 2 lousy dollars won't break a bank.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

"8) Rules reform regarding DQs...way too many people are baffled by some of the happenings."

how about just making the stewards discussion a matter of public record? i don't understand why there isn't a recording made and a transcript available. i don't think we need new rules. we just need transparency on how current rules are being applied.

transcripts would do that.

A million percent agreed. Why not inquiry every race, get rid of stupid objections, etc and have a camera in the stewards room so the players can hear the discussion? The reason....cheating. It would have to be on the up and up and, of course, we can't have that.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

unlike a pharmacy, it's fun to go to the track.

every entertainment venue charges to get in, right? i'd say compared to every other type of entertainment, 2 lousy dollars won't break a bank.

Gambling venues should not be charging for admission. They should be begging you to come in.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Gambling venues should not be charging for admission. They should be begging you to come in.

Amen

[JohnGalt1]

About the point tha many race tracks should close-- Some states require that a track hold a live meet in order to have simulcasting year around.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

A million percent agreed. Why not inquiry every race, get rid of stupid objections, etc and have a camera in the stewards room so the players can hear the discussion? The reason....cheating. It would have to be on the up and up and, of course, we can't have that.

Sorry.....that was the wrong answer. But, feel free to try again.....it is the internet after all.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Gambling venues should not be charging for admission. They should be begging you to come in.

Funny how us real horse players think alike, and the neophytes look at it like going to the ZOO.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Danzig

unlike a pharmacy, it's fun to go to the track.

every entertainment venue charges to get in, right? i'd say compared to every other type of entertainment, 2 lousy dollars won't break a bank.

Really Danzig, 2 or 3 bucks is not gonna kill anyone.

[Split Rock]

I think what is really hurting the racing industry is a few things:

1) Interest in horse racing has waned over the years for a variety of reasons:
a) More gambling options
b) Too difficult and time consuming to try and understand all the idiocyncracies of the game for a casual fan
c) Best horses retire right away and fans don't have a connection with any of the horses
d) Awful customer service at MOST (not all) tracks
e) Too much down time between races with nothing for the casual fan to do (ever tried to bring a date or a friend to the track. Not a very social event while you try and cap and strategize between races)

2) Corruption (lack of believability)

3) Lack of a governing body (until this happens competing interests will cause turmoil (case in point the internet wagering battle))

4) From a marketing standpoint, not understanding how to tap into the interests of non-horse players

5) From a marketing standpoint, not understanding who their core audience is (US). They need to present the product in the way we require. For example:
a) Odds changing during or after the race. Core fans don't like it and the perception is it is past posting. Fix it!
b) Closeups during the race. Core fans want to see their horses battling for the minor awards in the stretch. They do not need to see the color of the eyes of the winner crossing the wire. Fix it!
c) Will pays. Core fans want to know what they are set up to win with the final legs of pick 3's, pick 4's and pick 6's. Possibly even will pays for trifectas? Either way, Fix it!
d) Late scratches. This is awful for couplings and for middle or end legs of multi race wagering. Hard core fans don't even know what the rules are, do they get the post time favorite or a consolation pay? Fix it!
e) Inquiries and DQ's. Core fans want more transparency. Fix it!
f) Delays. Can the track at least inform their patrons what the delay is about and the approximate re-start? Case in point, Hawthorne yesterday. Talk about poor customer service. Fix it!

Anyway, could go on and on.....sorry if it sounds like ranting but until the people in control of this game start to have an agenda to "improve the product" and "attract all types of people" we will be stuck with a sub par game. Currently in appears to be run by wolves tearing apart a roting carcas.

[Stall Mucker]

Took awhile to read through the entire thread. Lots of issues to address here. Some good stuff here. I think we can all agree that the game will never be perfect.
It will be interesting to see what will be addressed in NTRA players panel and even more interesting to see the NTRA implement anything. Sorry, I don't hold much hope.
Let me throw out an idea that a few friends and I have discussed in the past few months.
The subject is NYRA. VLTs will help for awhile but, it's still gonna be sometime before they are up and running.
Why does NYRA not make an acquistion for the downstate OTBs? Money could be made "overnight" and NYRA could then make the improvements necessary for the 3 tracks. The upstate OTBs could be restructured to be more efficient. If anyone remembers, a multi million $ offer was made to MR. Bloomberg for NYCOTB and he balked. Now he's looking to shut them down.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Funny how us real horse players think alike, and the neophytes look at it like going to the ZOO.

i guess i'm a neophyte, since i can afford two dollars to get into the track.
if a hard core gambler hasn't got 8 quarters to get in, i don't see how he's going to last long at the window once inside.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess i'm a neophyte, since i can afford two dollars to get into the track.
if a hard core gambler hasn't got 8 quarters to get in, i don't see how he's going to last long at the window once inside.

This is so much the wrong attitude that I am genuinely surprised. The horseplayer that enters a racetrack pays PLENTY by wagering. Even if he ( or she ) only puts $100 through the windows in a day they are contributing roughly $20 to the racetrack....are you suggesting they should be expected to pay an additional $2 ( or more ) for the right to help racing in this manner?

But, nowadays it's actually even worse. With the majority of the money wagered these days going in through simulcasting, host tracks receive only a fragment of most of their wagering takeout, thus on-track dollars are even more precious. So, yes, asking people to pay for the right to wager at their facility is puzzling.

But, then again, at least you have the State of NY on your side, as they have effectively forbidden NYRA to allow their players in for free.

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess i'm a neophyte, since i can afford two dollars to get into the track.
if a hard core gambler hasn't got 8 quarters to get in, i don't see how he's going to last long at the window once inside.

The estute hardcore gambler would be better off if the casual
player were let in free. Given info for free. Seminars for easy betting
procedures between races.

And 50 cent beer
certainly would not hurt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is so much the wrong attitude that I am genuinely surprised. The horseplayer that enters a racetrack pays PLENTY by wagering. Even if he ( or she ) only puts $100 through the windows in a day they are contributing roughly $20 to the racetrack....are you suggesting they should be expected to pay an additional $2 ( or more ) for the right to help racing in this manner?

But, nowadays it's actually even worse. With the majority of the money wagered these days going in through simulcasting, host tracks receive only a fragment of most of their wagering takeout, thus on-track dollars are even more precious. So, yes, asking people to pay for the right to wager at their facility is puzzling.

But, then again, at least you have the State of NY on your side, as they have effectively forbidden NYRA to allow their players in for free.

i guess i just don't see it as a big deal. on the one hand, it's a small amount, so you might wonder why they bother at all. on the other, it's such a small amount, you wonder how it could keep someone from attending.
as for people on my side, i don't feel i have anyone there as my state only allows me to wager at the track itself. no online, no tvg, nothing. so i'm really hamstrung about how i can spend my money.
this thread is about improving the product. i think the $2 entry fee is a tremendously small part of a far larger problem, a declining fan base.

who knows, maybe if the tracks got rid of the fee, and trumpeted 'free admission', you might get a few more in there. for me personally, i don't have a problem with paying $2 to enter the track.

maybe they could put that fee towards more advertising. or towards horse rescue/retirement.

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess i just don't see it as a big deal. on the one hand, it's a small amount, so you might wonder why they bother at all. on the other, it's such a small amount, you wonder how it could keep someone from attending.
as for people on my side, i don't feel i have anyone there as my state only allows me to wager at the track itself. no online, no tvg, nothing. so i'm really hamstrung about how i can spend my money.
this thread is about improving the product. i think the $2 entry fee is a tremendously small part of a far larger problem, a declining fan base.

who knows, maybe if the tracks got rid of the fee, and trumpeted 'free admission', you might get a few more in there. for me personally, i don't have a problem with paying $2 to enter the track.

maybe they could put that fee towards more advertising. or towards horse rescue/retirement.

My particular statement was for the benefit of the gambler
who actually plans, or needs to make money at a track.
I would think that would be the miniscule few.

So your statement
is not odd at all. Are the tracks actually supposed to provide a
venue for some people willing to look very closely and study horse
racing and betting... a venue for them to live off of... Live off the
people that bet purely for entertainment.

I dont think so. But the tracks themselves need to attract
people to the track if revenue is lost in large amounts due
to the internets vast illegal use of the track's product.

Vegas seems to have done just fine with their house games
which are automatic losing propositions for everyone that
plays enough.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

how bout this idea

1-make it so there is almost no where to sit to see racing live

2-treat everyone like crap

3-make the experience extremely uncomfortable

4-rip everyone off

5-serve plenty of Franks energy drink

oops, damnit this has already been done--------GP 2008

I still don't understand all the hate for GP. The racing definitely has taken a decided step down, which I predicted would happen when they hired the Thistledown secretary to card races (16k MCL's on the grass?!?) but the overall experience is a LOT better than say, Aqueduct. It's beautiful, clean, has plenty of places to wager, and good food and drink. The prices are normal, not extrodinary as you seem to claim. Talk about no places to sit, have you ever been to Del Mar? (one of the best racetracks in the world?)

If I lived in South Florida I would have gone to the track today. Since I live in New York, and Aqueduct is still running, I didn't, and played from home. That's a problem that should be fixed... and I'm the kind of guy you want at the track any time you can get me there.

Originally Posted by Split Rock

I think what is really hurting the racing industry is a few things:

1) Interest in horse racing has waned over the years for a variety of reasons:
a) More gambling options
b) Too difficult and time consuming to try and understand all the idiocyncracies of the game for a casual fan
c) Best horses retire right away and fans don't have a connection with any of the horses
d) Awful customer service at MOST (not all) tracks
e) Too much down time between races with nothing for the casual fan to do (ever tried to bring a date or a friend to the track. Not a very social event while you try and cap and strategize between races)

2) Corruption (lack of believability)

3) Lack of a governing body (until this happens competing interests will cause turmoil (case in point the internet wagering battle))

4) From a marketing standpoint, not understanding how to tap into the interests of non-horse players

5) From a marketing standpoint, not understanding who their core audience is (US). They need to present the product in the way we require. For example:
a) Odds changing during or after the race. Core fans don't like it and the perception is it is past posting. Fix it!
b) Closeups during the race. Core fans want to see their horses battling for the minor awards in the stretch. They do not need to see the color of the eyes of the winner crossing the wire. Fix it!
c) Will pays. Core fans want to know what they are set up to win with the final legs of pick 3's, pick 4's and pick 6's. Possibly even will pays for trifectas? Either way, Fix it!
d) Late scratches. This is awful for couplings and for middle or end legs of multi race wagering. Hard core fans don't even know what the rules are, do they get the post time favorite or a consolation pay? Fix it!
e) Inquiries and DQ's. Core fans want more transparency. Fix it!
f) Delays. Can the track at least inform their patrons what the delay is about and the approximate re-start? Case in point, Hawthorne yesterday. Talk about poor customer service. Fix it!

Anyway, could go on and on.....sorry if it sounds like ranting but until the people in control of this game start to have an agenda to "improve the product" and "attract all types of people" we will be stuck with a sub par game. Currently in appears to be run by wolves tearing apart a roting carcas.

Good post.