$5.50 for this?

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

I still don't get the analogy.

can you put it in terms of bacon?

Sure...you used to buy bacon for $4 a pound...good, meaty bacon, that held it's form when you cooked it...now they are giving you a lot more bacon, say a pound and a half, but are charging you $5.50 and when you cook it, it shrivels up like a shrinky dink.

Get it now?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Sure...you used to buy bacon for $4 a pound...good, meaty bacon, that held it's form when you cooked it...now they are giving you a lot more bacon, say a pound and a half, but are charging you $5.50 and when you cook it, it shrivels up like a shrinky dink.

Get it now?

My Form doesn't shrivel up when I cook it.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

My Form doesn't shrivel up when I cook it.

That's because it comes pre-shriveled...

And that folks, has been my point from the beginning...

[rontheman1964]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
My only thing with it is I wish I would go to white paper, instead of newspaper. I don't get it because I end up getting ink all over my face by about the 5th race.


If you're pressing the Form to your face, you're not using it right.
__________________

Blood, sweat and tears....lots and lots of tears, baby!!!!!

We NEED waterproof ink in the form. I think that is one of the things Hilary is promising in her campaign.....

[letswastemoney]

Just get the online version for $3.50 and do your homework the night before. Or if it is logistical, bring your laptop to the track. BRIS is cheaper actually. Get them.

How come the DRF can't list if a horse is a First Time Gelding? Prime Ruler just popped on Sunday at a $75 mutuel after going under the knife. If the rule in CAL is that trainer has to notify the racing office 72 hrs in advance it should be able to make it in the form. Also, a FTG or some other acronym should be noted in the PP. If there is one thing I would like added to the DRF it would be this.

California Horse Racing Board
State of California
Display of Rule No. 1865 , "Altering of Sex of Horse."

Rule No. Rule Title
1865 Altering of Sex of Horse.
Rule Text Any alteration to the sex of a horse from the sex as recorded on the Certificate of Foal Registration or the Eligibility Certificate or other official registration certificate of such horse shall be reported to the Racing Secretary and the Official Horse Identifier if such horse is registered to race at any race meeting. (a) Should the gelding or castration of a race horse be performed on the premises of a licensed racing association, the trainer shall report the same within 72 hours. (b) Should the gelding or castration of a race horse be performed off the premises of a licensed racing association and the horse has been previously registered to race at any race meeting in this State, the owner and/or trainer shall report the same at the time the horse is next registered to race. (c) Any such report will include the name of the veterinarian performing the alteration and the date of the alteration, and shall be recorded on the official registration certificate and the Official Horse Identification record of such horse. NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 19420, 19440, 19460 and 19562, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. New rule filed 7-11-75; effective 8-10-75.

[pick4]

Originally Posted by SundaySilence

How come the DRF can't list if a horse is a First Time Gelding? Prime Ruler just popped on Sunday at a $75 mutuel after going under the knife. If the rule in CAL is that trainer has to notify the racing office 72 hrs in advance it should be able to make it in the form. Also, a FTG or some other acronym should be noted in the PP. If there is one thing I would like added to the DRF it would be this.

California Horse Racing Board
State of California
Display of Rule No. 1865 , "Altering of Sex of Horse."

Rule No. Rule Title
1865 Altering of Sex of Horse.
Rule Text Any alteration to the sex of a horse from the sex as recorded on the Certificate of Foal Registration or the Eligibility Certificate or other official registration certificate of such horse shall be reported to the Racing Secretary and the Official Horse Identifier if such horse is registered to race at any race meeting. (a) Should the gelding or castration of a race horse be performed on the premises of a licensed racing association, the trainer shall report the same within 72 hours. (b) Should the gelding or castration of a race horse be performed off the premises of a licensed racing association and the horse has been previously registered to race at any race meeting in this State, the owner and/or trainer shall report the same at the time the horse is next registered to race. (c) Any such report will include the name of the veterinarian performing the alteration and the date of the alteration, and shall be recorded on the official registration certificate and the Official Horse Identification record of such horse. NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 19420, 19440, 19460 and 19562, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. New rule filed 7-11-75; effective 8-10-75.

I've asked Steve Crist the same question you posed and he said that the information is not available when they print the pp's.

I don't understand why there is all the nitpicking about this fine paper. Sure it stinks that the price is $5.50 on newstands but they have to cover the costs of manufacturing and distributing the paper. I use Formy 4.1 most of the time and it's worth its weight in gold. I have a laser printer and buy rebuilt printing cartridges so I can print hundreds of cards before I need a new cartridge. Once I have the card printed I use Formy 4.1 to look up the charts and at times trainer info.

I prefer Formy 4.1 but the print paper is fine. The main difference is I have to look up charts in my archives for the last three when I buy the print edition.
Nonetheless I always buy a next day Form when I go to Belmont or Saratoga.

Frankel's money burning 6 horse in the 1st at Hollywood on 5/16 is a FTG (gelded on 04/19/08 according to the Cal Vet List Report) and DRF can't get this info in the form? Seems like a real lame excuse, at least for Cal this info is available, why it isn't in the form is beyond me.

[pick4]

Originally Posted by SundaySilence

Frankel's money burning 6 horse in the 1st at Hollywood on 5/16 is a FTG (gelded on 04/19/08 according to the Cal Vet List Report) and DRF can't get this info in the form? Seems like a real lame excuse, at least for Cal this info is available, why it isn't in the form is beyond me.

That's a good question and that is why I asked Mr. Crist the same question. I think more people should take the time to write or call drf about this topic. DRF is horseplayer friendly publication. If more of their customers ask about first time geldings they might go the extra mile to add it to their paper.

He's listed as a gelding in the DRF, but with the info given you have no clue when he was gelded. DRF's database should have shown that he was a colt for the 4/12 start and is now a gelding, some notation in the form should show this.

[pick4]

Originally Posted by SundaySilence

He's listed as a gelding in the DRF, but with the info given you have no clue when he was gelded. DRF's database should have shown that he was a colt for the 4/12 start and is now a gelding, some notation in the form should show this.

You are preaching to the choir. Make a post on Steve Crist's blog. cristblog.drf.com . Write a letter to the editor.

But here's one reason you might not want this specfic info publicized.
If you know a horse is a FTG and most of the bettors do not. That's an edge which you have over your competition.

[GPK]

Be grateful you can still get the DRF in its entirety. My local OTB (Colonial Downs in Vinton, VA) stopped having it delivered. We now have a kiosk that we print the cards off for $1 per track. I'd love to have the option to pay $5.50 for the entire form.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

I'll be buying the printed edition (if I can find one) today for Saturday. First time getting one since Sumwonlovesyou ran the second time for us (over a year ago) I usually get the printed PP's online eiher through DRF or the freebies that Capital OTB used to send me.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SundaySilence

He's listed as a gelding in the DRF, but with the info given you have no clue when he was gelded. DRF's database should have shown that he was a colt for the 4/12 start and is now a gelding, some notation in the form should show this.

The gelding situation has been explained endlessly....but I will do it for the 567th time.....


Providing information that is right SOME of the time is far worse than not providing it at all. The very simple fact is that gelding information is provided by the Jockey Club and a very poor job is done reporting this information. Some jurisdictions, like California, do a great job, while some, like Florida, do a terrible job. As the system stands now it is impossible for DRF to get the information anywhere close to accurately thus they cannot provide it reliably.

It is the system that needs to be changed, and I strongly believe it should be, but until that is done DRF cannot responsibly provide information that is not 100% accurate.

[fpsoxfan]

The DRF has always done well by me. Prices increase. That's economics.
I guess when I'm betting hundreds of dollars over a course of a day, I'm not really thinking about the $5.50. I guess I equate that to someone driving around the area of Nelson Avenue for a half hour trying to save a dollar or two on parking when they are about to bet a few hundred bucks.

[ArlJim78]

i don't use the form on a regular basis, although I like to pick one up on Saturdays to read at breakfast. but what I don't get is the idea that its overpriced. it comes to less than $1 a card, and you get very good pp's, commentary, analysis, features. i think its a great bargain. of course if you play a lot there are other ways you can go but still, not a bad deal if you ask me.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

i don't use the form on a regular basis, although I like to pick one up on Saturdays to read at breakfast. but what I don't get is the idea that its overpriced. it comes to less than $1 a card, and you get very good pp's, commentary, analysis, features. i think its a great bargain. of course if you play a lot there are other ways you can go but still, not a bad deal if you ask me.

For the last time, the amount of $5.50 is a secondary complaint. The decrease in quality while increasing cost is the rub. But, while we are dicussing cost, $5.50 a day for me is close to $1500 a year on a newspaper. If I were purchasing it once a week, fine, it's a magazine. An expensive magazine, but a magazine. It is a daily newspaper, that has many other additional revenue streams (endless Westpoint ads, classifieds, etc...) that I still feel the cost is excessive.

But my bigger beef is the quality, or lack there of...

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I didn't know it was $5.50........I stopped wasting that money long ago. Just download the past performances, and get the news from this board/ racing- type shows. Any good betting info in there will be seen by so many other eyes that it will not be very important. They pretty much want you in the hole before you ever make a bet. It's always been that way. It's not useless, but it's really worth about $2. That's it. Same waste of money that over-priced coffee is. Wean yourself off it, and in a year or two, you'll have saved enough for a big screen T.V. If it feels like a rip-off, it's because it is one. Seriously, it's worth $2 a day. They simply think they're more important than they really are. You have to understand that writers are this way.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

The DRF has always done well by me. Prices increase. That's economics.
I guess when I'm betting hundreds of dollars over a course of a day, I'm not really thinking about the $5.50. I guess I equate that to someone driving around the area of Nelson Avenue for a half hour trying to save a dollar or two on parking when they are about to bet a few hundred bucks.

Yea, if you're pissing away a hundred or two in take-out each day,then the $5.50 looks like a value ( in comparison.)

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

For the last time, the amount of $5.50 is a secondary complaint. The decrease in quality while increasing cost is the rub. But, while we are dicussing cost, $5.50 a day for me is close to $1500 a year on a newspaper. If I were purchasing it once a week, fine, it's a magazine. An expensive magazine, but a magazine. It is a daily newspaper, that has many other additional revenue streams (endless Westpoint ads, classifieds, etc...) that I still feel the cost is excessive.

But my bigger beef is the quality, or lack there of...

the form is not a newspaper or magazine, comparing it to the cost of a newspaper is not valid. you're buying data. your leading argument was about how much it costs, and you have droned on and on about the cost of milk, gas, bacon etc. the title of the thread references the cost. and here again you claim the cost is excessive, based on what? thats an individual decision, whats excessive for one person may not be to another. as others have pointed out, why do you by the form every day? there are alternatives. if you wager on twinspires you can get PP's for free. to do this you need good data and you're going to have to pay for it. but you can do a lot better than spend $1500 per year for a large stack of paper.

now you say the cost is secondary? okay then.

your quality argument is based on two anecdotal accounts and a couple of questions. Something about what does 5/16 medication mean, and why can't they have blinker stats next to the trainer every time? hardly proof of an "insane amount of errors" as you claimed. an error of ommision is at worst an inconvenience to you but not the same thing as publishing incorrect data. it is hard to have a perfectly complete dataset for all the myriad combinations that exist so I'm not surprised that there are some holes.
but a huge drop in quality of the form? no way.

you then list several additional items you want in the form, that aren't there now. M/L, indication of 1 turn or 2, conditions written on the page of the race. okay, send them an email and request that stuff, hardly anything to get all worked up about and not an indication of declining quality. if you actually spend 30 minutes writing down the graded odds on the race page, you should seek help because it shouldn't take more than a couple minutes.

your complaint that the writers of the closer look are "mailing it in" may be true, who knows, but again that is opinion, you can do with it what you want.