Interesting Developments

[Indian Charlie]

Are you from Erie too?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Oxtails are exotic?

Have people never been to anything better than Arby's?

I agree. It's pretty sad.

[Indian Charlie]

It is sad, really.

It's just meat from the tail of a steer. Very tender and delicious.

You gotta try different foods. Who knows, you might like it.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Derby is hardly what the game is all about. Maybe on the internet....but not at the windows where it really matters.

Spoken like a true bettor

[HaloWishingwell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It would, of course, be nice to be able to always make decisions on what we have seen, but that isn't always the case, and in this year's Derby, if you are betting, you have to make a decision on Pioneer of the Nile, as he is one of the favorites. Here's what we have.....a horse that ran fairly well in his debut on the turf, and then ran slowly in a bunch of synthetic turf races, while earning a reputation based on the names of the races he ran in and not on his actual on track performances. Could he improve on the dirt? Of course, but he likely won't ( as few horses are proficient on all surfaces ), and at the odds he will be, based on how he has performed, he is a good horse to bet against.

Your point makes sense but POTN odds the last 3 races have been ).30,1.70 and 1.30-1. It appears QUALITY ROAD, DUNKIRK, I WANT REVENGE and maybe FREISAN FIRE will be bet ahead of him. I think his backers won't mind 6-1 or 7-1 on him regardless of no dirt experience.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by HaloWishingwell

Your point makes sense but POTN odds the last 3 races have been ).30,1.70 and 1.30-1. It appears QUALITY ROAD, DUNKIRK, I WANT REVENGE and maybe FREISAN FIRE will be bet ahead of him. I think his backers won't mind 6-1 or 7-1 on him regardless of no dirt experience.

You really think you will get 7-1?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if he is 7/1.

The Derby betting can be kind of weird though ... as every year it seems like one or two horses get hit with an unexpected flood of money. Take a look at Stephen Got Even or the absurd Dollar Bill for examples.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm basing it on the belief that most horses aren't dual surface horses. a few are-barbaro and big brown handled turf and dirt with aplomb, while curlin the great ( ) for example did not. i'm inclined to go with a horse who has exhibited where he is at his best.

horses can hit the board on the one, but translate board hits to wins on their best surface.. i want revenge is one example, street sense is another. he beat hard spun in ky, but HS turned the tables at turfway.

that implies that Hard Spun beat Street Sense at Turfway.

at Turfway... wow

So, no one is talking about Hold Me Back

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

that implies that Hard Spun beat Street Sense at Turfway.

at Turfway... wow

So, no one is talking about Hold Me Back

??


"The third time was the charm for Hard Spun, who finally defeated Street Sense when he won the Sept. 29 Kentucky Cup Classic Stakes (gr. II) at Turfway Park by 11¼4 lengths."

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Oxtails are exotic?

Have people never been to anything better than Arby's?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Are you from Erie too?

Erie is to America what Paris is to Europe.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Danzig

??


"The third time was the charm for Hard Spun, who finally defeated Street Sense when he won the Sept. 29 Kentucky Cup Classic Stakes (gr. II) at Turfway Park by 11¼4 lengths."

oh, I was thinking The Lane's End prep

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Erie is to America what Paris is to Europe.

Really? The Germans have overrun Erie twice too?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Really? The Germans have overrun Erie twice too?

or maybe erie would immediately surrender if invaded...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Some of the girls around here don't seem to want to shave their armpits.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

While I prefer Hockey's response....I will give you a few off the top of my head.....Adriano, Monba and Cowboy Cal.

Better conditioning? See Hockey's previous response.

How about adding Go Between to that list as well.
Student Council, too?

[lemoncrush]

Papa Clem's victory recalled visions of Gayego last year in an awful field.
And the Bluegrass is quickly becoming a joke. General Quarters will be no more of a factor on Derby day and beyond than the last two winners of that race (Monba and Dominican).

[CSC]

Originally Posted by HaloWishingwell

Your point makes sense but POTN odds the last 3 races have been ).30,1.70 and 1.30-1. It appears QUALITY ROAD, DUNKIRK, I WANT REVENGE and maybe FREISAN FIRE will be bet ahead of him. I think his backers won't mind 6-1 or 7-1 on him regardless of no dirt experience.

I agree I can see him going off as the probable 4th pick in the derby if QR goes and may even slip to the 5th pick if Dunkirk gets in. 5th choice out of 20 pool horses is not bad. Regardless if you took him in the Day 3 pool you could have had 11-1 on him.

[PeteMugg]

POTN has battled Gomez the last two and still managed to win. He may not like the dirt or the distance but he certainly has no shot if he is rank. I'd say let him run and hope for the best.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

POTN has battled Gomez the last two and still managed to win. He may not like the dirt or the distance but he certainly has no shot if he is rank. I'd say let him run and hope for the best.

His last race was not visually impressive, nor was it impressive from a beyer standpoint (96). The call here for a horseplayer if you are considering him for the derby is will he be better on traditional dirt than on syth or turf. He's by Empire Maker not unlike David Caroll's Acoma, she eventually had to prove the same questions by winning on turf, syth, and then dirt. But no one knows absolutely if he will be good enough. Like someone said in this thread alot is said about synth horses going backward on dirt, what about the flip side synth horses improving on dirt?