Germans move the right (correct) way

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

And he's spending all his time hemming and hawing about bipartisanship with a group that has NO interest whatsoever in bipartisanship.

You have the majority, ram this $hit through and take ownership of it. Because all that's happening now is that NOTHING is getting done, and that's gonna get him voted out of office just as fast as people not liking his policies....may as well just get to doing what he was put there to do and we'll all decide whether or not we like it afterwards instead of us deciding whether or not we like his constant capitulating to people who have no interest in working with him at all, and have no qualms about admitting that him losing is the ONLY thing they care about.

They didn't care what we thought for the last eight years, I don't understand the need to play nice now.

Yeah lets not think things through. Just ram the s.hit through and deal with the consequences later. I'm sure the Health Care plan and the rest of his agenda won't be a f.uckup of epic proportions like the Iraq war.

Grade Jub!@

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Yeah lets not think things through. Just ram the s.hit through and deal with the consequences later. I'm sure the Health Care plan and the rest of his agenda won't be a f.uckup of epic proportions like the Iraq war.

Grade Jub!@

Thinking things through is one thing. I support that, but setting up that straw man in response to my post was of course necessary. Shoving it through because you have the votes and not thinking about it are two different things...but of course you knew that already.. Anything the Dems want, they can basically pass, but instead they're busy capitulating at every turn because they're pathetic and afraid of a bunch of loudmouths.

But all this stupid **** about wanting Republican votes for things and wanting to work together, when Republicans have indicated they have no interest at all in working with him on anything (unless working with him means getting everything they want, exactly how they want it, which defeats the point of them losing the last election in the first place) is going to ensure that he fails...just like he's doing now. At this rate, he's certainly not going to get voted out of office based on his policies, since he's not enacting any of them because he's too busy caving on EVERYthing they want. He'll get voted out because he did NOTHING in four years. And that will be his fault.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Thinking things through is one thing. I support that, but setting up that straw man in response to my post was of course necessary. Shoving it through because you have the votes and not thinking about it are two different things...but of course you knew that already.. Anything the Dems want, they can basically pass, but instead they're busy capitulating at every turn because they're pathetic and afraid of a bunch of loudmouths.

But all this stupid **** about wanting Republican votes for things and wanting to work together, when Republicans have indicated they have no interest at all in working with him on anything (unless working with him means getting everything they want, exactly how they want it, which defeats the point of them losing the last election in the first place) is going to ensure that he fails...just like he's doing now. At this rate, he's certainly not going to get voted out of office based on his policies, since he's not enacting any of them because he's too busy caving on EVERYthing they want. He'll get voted out because he did NOTHING in four years. And that will be his fault.

What did you expect? The guy is a p.ussy. Dems are notorious for being weak and indecisive. They are far better politicians than the other side of the aisle.

I'm of the belief that doing nothing is better than doing something. Big head Ted did something and sided with Bush on MIPPA and it did nothing but give the keys to the treasury to the pharmaceutical and insurance companies. These plans originally cost 20% more than original medicare and the coverage was s.hit and doctors could accept the plans on a case by case basis.

To trust the democrats, or any politician for that matter, on an issue as monumental as this is foolish. They are not looking out for our best interests and chances are all they will do is pass something that will take away over 100,000 middle-class jobs and add to the already catastrophically high deficit.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Thinking things through is one thing. I support that, but setting up that straw man in response to my post was of course necessary. Shoving it through because you have the votes and not thinking about it are two different things...but of course you knew that already.. Anything the Dems want, they can basically pass, but instead they're busy capitulating at every turn because they're pathetic and afraid of a bunch of loudmouths.

But all this stupid **** about wanting Republican votes for things and wanting to work together, when Republicans have indicated they have no interest at all in working with him on anything (unless working with him means getting everything they want, exactly how they want it, which defeats the point of them losing the last election in the first place) is going to ensure that he fails...just like he's doing now. At this rate, he's certainly not going to get voted out of office based on his policies, since he's not enacting any of them because he's too busy caving on EVERYthing they want. He'll get voted out because he did NOTHING in four years. And that will be his fault.

Brian he campaigned as a centerist. While that was basically a put on, he is a liberal in just about every sense of the word, if he were to swing far left now he would doom Democrats for years. His policies are going to be screwed up because the guy is simply not a leader. He has consistently let the idiots of the party (Pelosi and Reid) run the show for him. The guy was a popular personality elected, not some great poitician. He has never really accomplished much before other than get elected. That continues. You are mad because you are a far left liberal who thought that having another liberal on top of the two stooges would mean nirvanna for your side. But everyone forgot that the reason that Obama was elected was anger against Bush and the fact that Obama SAID he would be this great unifier who would bring people together. You can blame the GOP for opposing his agenda but he came in with the "we won" attitude and never made any real attempt to work accross the aisle. Obama let Pelosi run the stimlus show and lost control by doing so. The Democratic party is a mess because Obama cant bring them togther. You want something passed, bite the bullet and tone down the liberal rhetoric, come to the table in the middle and maybe something gets done. Otherwise the Dems are handing over everything to the other side and will regret that for years. The reason that the health care thing is a mess is because the far left liberals who represent about 10% of the country, wont back down.

[brianwspencer]

Chuck, I'm not saying he's anything but a liberal. I also am well aware that my ideal candidate, and my ideal set of policies that I would love to see in place in this country will NEVER EVER happen.

It's the fact that they're pathetic and spineless. Bush and his people didn't have any problem going it alone (look! there's something about Bush that I actually admire, his strength of conviction....even if they were totally wrong), but regardless of how Obama campaigned, in nine short months, it's become abundantly clear that nobody is willing to meet him in the middle or anywhere near the middle. So the options are either go it alone and take ownership of what you stand for, or keep talking empty talk about working together with a group of people with NO interest whatsoever in working with you on anything but what they want and who are completely controlled by out of control teabaggers and birthers.

[Antitrust32]

I really think some kind of health care reform is going to pass. This country really needs it. Affordable health care for all Americans is just the morally right thing to do. the govn't option sucks because we all know that the government royally screws up anything they stick their nose into. What really bugs me is the dems insistance about not reforming the malpractice bulljive. They cant offend those few thousand lawyers that pad their pockets. Sure they say they are doing this or that.. but there is no real interest on the Dems side to reform malpractice sheisa. If they put more effort into that I could see some Repubs getting on board.

And the reason Obama wants bipartisan support is because when his policies fail miserably, like the stimulus, he wants to be able to share the blame.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

What did you expect? The guy is a p.ussy. Dems are notorious for being weak and indecisive. They are far better politicians than the other side of the aisle.

I'm of the belief that doing nothing is better than doing something. Big head Ted did something and sided with Bush on MIPPA and it did nothing but give the keys to the treasury to the pharmaceutical and insurance companies. These plans originally cost 20% more than original medicare and the coverage was s.hit and doctors could accept the plans on a case by case basis.

To trust the democrats, or any politician for that matter, on an issue as monumental as this is foolish. They are not looking out for our best interests and chances are all they will do is pass something that will take away over 100,000 middle-class jobs and add to the already catastrophically high deficit.

i'm still in awe that he told the general in charge of waging war in afganistan that he'll have to wait a few weeks while obama figures out what he wants to do. that's just freaking awesome.
oh, and he's talked to the good soldier once since taking office-almost 9 months ago.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I really think some kind of health care reform is going to pass. This country really needs it. Affordable health care for all Americans is just the morally right thing to do. the govn't option sucks because we all know that the government royally screws up anything they stick their nose into. What really bugs me is the dems insistance about not reforming the malpractice bulljive. They cant offend those few thousand lawyers that pad their pockets. Sure they say they are doing this or that.. but there is no real interest on the Dems side to reform malpractice sheisa. If they put more effort into that I could see some Repubs getting on board.

And the reason Obama wants bipartisan support is because when his policies fail miserably, like the stimulus, he wants to be able to share the blame.

the best thing they could do to help out health care would be the one thing they absolutely won't do-tort reform. because, when it's all said and done, the pols will do what's best for themselves, not the rest of us. and tort reform would definitely not be best for the pols.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm still in awe that he told the general in charge of waging war in afganistan that he'll have to wait a few weeks while obama figures out what he wants to do. that's just freaking awesome.
oh, and he's talked to the good soldier once since taking office-almost 9 months ago.

i think we could use terry finley in the white house , he would talk to the general multiple times in the am before us common folks even get up in the am

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The reason that the health care thing is a mess is because the far left liberals who represent about 10% of the country, wont back down.

No, it's because he isn't punishing members of his own party that are stabbing him in the back. He needs to make it just as distasteful to vote against him as it is for them to vote with him. They want to get elected again instead of serving their party, and their president. All that's gunna do is cripple the President, and give their seats over to Republicans (cuz "DEMS aint doing anything.") DEMS need to set these Opportunistic whores like Mary Landrieu, n ' Bachus straight. People are gunna remember this for a long long time. Brian, this guy OBA has been weak with his own party members. He doesn't have the votes, and that's because he isn't punishing these so called "DEMS" that obviously don't give a sht about whether he succeeds. It's his a-s-s gunna pay. Better wake up, and start making it a lot less comfortable for them to be kickin' him in the nuts. They need a good kick, and someone better get to kickin' right about yesterday. It's one thing for him to lose on this, but there better be some damn good damage done to them. Nobody is gunna respect this guy if he doesn't punish this vermin. They need to be informed of how shitty he's gunna make their professional lives from here on in. That's what he needs to do. Put it all on the table. You want to fk me, then you gunna take this door. If you're with me, you gunna get that door. Oh, you gunna get one of the doors to open. You decide. Unless he does that, this filth doesn't give a sht bout him. He keeps thinking they gunna see the light. They need to see the pain. All the sudden, they'll see the light. This scum can add it all up pretty well. These aren't DEMS. These are whores that don't really care about anything but the bottom line. This FAT Mary L. is the worst of the bunch. Don't know how people can be around that thing n' not itch.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the best thing they could do to help out health care would be the one thing they absolutely won't do-tort reform. because, when it's all said and done, the pols will do what's best for themselves, not the rest of us. and tort reform would definitely not be best for the pols.

Originally Posted by Antitrust

What really bugs me is the dems insistance about not reforming the malpractice bulljive.

Obama has asked for tort reform provisions to be definitely included in the House bill. It was announced in the "Joe Wilson" speech.

That was weeks ago - you guys don't pay attention?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the best thing they could do to help out health care would be the one thing they absolutely won't do-tort reform. because, when it's all said and done, the pols will do what's best for themselves, not the rest of us. and tort reform would definitely not be best for the pols.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mostcommentart

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Even if we have Tort Reform, most likely Doctors and insurance companies will just find a way to pocket the savings. If one pig at the trough goes away, the others just eat his share. You really think, if they set up these panels (or boards) to bypass lawyers, that Insurance companies n' Doctors won't find away to buy them off? These are two smart pigs. If you do this, then you better come up with a system that recognizes this. You think it's easy to get patients what they are due without pigs fighting other pigs to get it? Don't be naive. There are three pigs at the trough. Get rid of one of them, and (of course) the other two eat his share. The only way this won't happen is with some very strong mechanism that can't be manipulated by these other two.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Thinking things through is one thing. I support that, but setting up that straw man in response to my post was of course necessary. Shoving it through because you have the votes and not thinking about it are two different things...but of course you knew that already.. Anything the Dems want, they can basically pass, but instead they're busy capitulating at every turn because they're pathetic and afraid of a bunch of loudmouths.

But all this stupid **** about wanting Republican votes for things and wanting to work together, when Republicans have indicated they have no interest at all in working with him on anything (unless working with him means getting everything they want, exactly how they want it, which defeats the point of them losing the last election in the first place) is going to ensure that he fails...just like he's doing now. At this rate, he's certainly not going to get voted out of office based on his policies, since he's not enacting any of them because he's too busy caving on EVERYthing they want. He'll get voted out because he did NOTHING in four years. And that will be his fault.

one of the consequences of being a party that's inclusive is you have a lot of internal fights. ben nelson isn't exactly ted kennedy.

the idea that dem's can just shove whatever they want down republican throats is actually more a "after an election where we just got our asses handed to us, what do we do now?" republican idea than a democratic one.

in the long run it isn't going to matter much. they'll get older and whiter and the country will get younger and browner.

i don't get the end game republican's think they have but i'm not too worried about the long term.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Obama has asked for tort reform provisions to be definitely included in the House bill. It was announced in the "Joe Wilson" speech.

That was weeks ago - you guys don't pay attention?

lol
asking and getting are waaaaaay different. you really think dems are going to bite that hand? lol ain't gonna happen. lawyers are some of the biggest contributors to the democratic party, and certainly would never want anything close to tort reform.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mostcommentart

yeah, i read that earlier. but i apparently 'don't pay attention'.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Even if we have Tort Reform, most likely Doctors and insurance companies will just find a way to pocket the savings. If one pig at the trough goes away, the others just eat his share. You really think, if they set up these panels (or boards) to bypass lawyers, that Insurance companies n' Doctors won't find away to buy them off? These are two smart pigs. If you do this, then you better come up with a system that recognizes this. You think it's easy to get patients what they are due without pigs fighting other pigs to get it? Don't be naive. There are three pigs at the trough. Get rid of one of them, and (of course) the other two eat his share. The only way this won't happen is with some very strong mechanism that can't be manipulated by these other two.

thing is, many doctors end up leaving private practice because the costs of medical malpractice becomes so cost prohibitive. my family doctor when i lived in md ended up going back to the e.r. rather than pay that. so not only do lawyers not want a change, i'd imagine whoever provides that insurance doesn't either. it's certainly not the only fix needed, but it can't hurt either. it's not a magic problem solver, but it's one of several underlying issues affecting the cost of health care.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Obama has asked for tort reform provisions to be definitely included in the House bill. It was announced in the "Joe Wilson" speech.

That was weeks ago - you guys don't pay attention?

If you knew how to read you would have read where they did some bullshit with the tort reform.. but its really weak. I dont want to argue with you though as you are clueless.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, i read that earlier. but i apparently 'don't pay attention'.

Exactly.. I read the same thing. I know Riots response though. "look at who wrote that. republican propaganda blah blah blah" then she'll say how she's a republican and Obama is not a liberal.

She gives liberals a bad name.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

lol
asking and getting are waaaaaay different. you really think dems are going to bite that hand? lol ain't gonna happen. lawyers are some of the biggest contributors to the democratic party, and certainly would never want anything close to tort reform.

The GOP just has to write it up and get it in there. It will be weak and basically useless, as you say, to protect the insurance industry and lawyers. The Dems have already said no problem, and Obama will sign it.